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Thread: When Will We Recover From The Civil War? Now Is The Time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Triplelefthook,



    Well if he treats everyone the same then he's not the problem. But he doesn't know what goes on with other officers when he's not around.



    Correct - I disagree with that conclusion. I think DT rode the economic momentum that Obama ushered in. I don't think the tax cut for the wealthy helped the economy. The economy was already doing fine. What DT did was to make wealth inequality worse. The federal debt has gone through the roof. That's not helping anything. We don't collect enough revenue to pay our normal expenses, no way we can enact any programs to help the disadvantaged. We don't have room in the budget for it.

    I'll tell you what is going to increase upward mobility. Tax the rich heavily, use the money to set up programs that help people succeed. End the legal corruption. That starts locally. We have to elect local leaders who will pass the Anti-Corruption Act locally. Then we move up to statewide. After that, State elections will be subject to it and we will begin sending anti-corruption people to Congress. After we get enough support there, we can pass it at the national level.

    The problem is we no longer have a Democracy, but people don't know it. Most people think we have a Democracy, but what we really have is an oligarchy. Congress passes what the rich want, not what the people want. Until that changes, we are stuck. The left and the right each think the other is to blame for our problems, but really it is the oligarchy. The greedy super-rich and powerful (not to be confused with rich people who are not greedy and sincerely wish to help,) the greedy ones are able to exert far too much control over our government. They get their way. We the people don't get our way.

    The greedy rich have the left and right fighting against one another and constantly throw gas on that fire. They keep the left and right laser-focused on one another as they rip us all off on everything. It's a grand divide and conquer scheme. We have been divided and conquered. It's like Warren Buffet said. The Class War has already been won by the upper class. They dominate. We the people are the dominated.
    Well said. I enjoyed the discussion thank you PoliTalker. So do you honestly feel Joe Biden will help heal the racial divide moreso than Donald Trump if elected in November?

    I agree about Congress.They pass what the rich want. They are actually all on the same side and only work for the corporations and top 1% in this country. Our news outlets are controlled by those same corporations which is where you get your fake news that puts on this con that Dems and Republicans are going at each other’s throats. The only purpose in that con is to get the people to pick a side and hence actually go at each other’s throats while the corporations and the 1% continue to fuck us out of our rights and our money.

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    Hello Triplelefthook,

    Quote Originally Posted by Triplelefthook View Post
    Well said. I enjoyed the discussion thank you PoliTalker. So do you honestly feel Joe Biden will help heal the racial divide moreso than Donald Trump if elected in November?

    I agree about Congress.They pass what the rich want. They are actually all on the same side and only work for the corporations and top 1% in this country. Our news outlets are controlled by those same corporations which is where you get your fake news that puts on this con that Dems and Republicans are going at each other’s throats. The only purpose in that con is to get the people to pick a side and hence actually go at each other’s throats while the corporations and the 1% continue to fuck us out of our rights and our money.
    Thank you. I also very much enjoy discussing this with you as well, Triplelefthook.

    Biden will certainly be better about healing the racial divide. But he won't be much better about ending the Class War, which is a major problem in race relations. At least with Biden we will get far more honest leadership. He's smart. Biden is an experienced politician just like McConnell, Pelosi, all the rest. Savvy politicians go with the political momentum. That's why nearly all the remaining Republicans are bending to DT's will. The one reason is that DT has this support of the people. That's what gives him the power to do the things he does. IF Biden is as smart as I think he is, he will jump onto this race relations bandwagon and ride that power not only into the WH, but much further. Yes, racial relations will improve with Biden, but unless the people demand Democracy with as great a movement as BLM then we will continue to have an oligarchy under Biden.

    The challenge for America is to figure out how to ignite the passion for the Class War struggle that equals the passion for the Racial tension. I just don't see a lot of people jumping onto that bandwagon yet. I have spent years saying this and it falls upon deaf ears. We just need more people to emphasize it. Far more people.
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    Last night I watched "The Gangs of New York" again. The 1863 New York draft riots played a key part of the movie and raised an important part of history. One reason why the Civil War still raises issues is because many of the same problems still exist; Federal law trumping citizen rights, elitism, the use of Federal force against Americans, immigration.

    It proved Lincoln's War started the draft; unprecedented in US history.

    It pointed out that New York also thought about seceding because the war and loss of business with the South was crippling them.

    It raised the ugly head of elitism since the rich could buy their way out of the draft whereas the poor were stuck with going to war.

    It used Federal troops to quell the rioting resulting in the deaths of American citizens. The official death toll was 119 but the true number could be over 1200 since many of the dead were Irish immigrants who were considered on the level of African-Americans by Northern racists so leaders didn't give a shit about them. Irish immigrants were pouring in by the thousands and were considered as expendable as yesterday's newspaper.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...ar/draft-riots
    The New York Draft Riots occurred in July 1863, when the anger of working-class New Yorkers over a new federal draft law during the Civil War sparked five days of some of the bloodiest and most destructive rioting in U.S. history. Hundreds of people were killed, many more seriously injured, and African-Americans were often the target of the rioters’ violence....

    ...Facing a dire shortage of manpower in early 1863, Lincoln’s government passed a strict new conscription law, which made all male citizens between 20 and 35 and all unmarried men between 35 and 45 subject to military duty.

    Though all eligible men were entered into a lottery, they could buy their way out of harm’s way by hiring a substitute or paying $300 to the government (roughly $5,800 today).

    At the time, that sum was the yearly salary for the average American worker, making avoiding the draft impossible for all but the wealthiest of men. Compounding the issue, African Americans were exempt from the draft, as they were not considered citizens.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Last night I watched "The Gangs of New York" again. The 1863 New York draft riots played a key part of the movie and raised an important part of history. One reason why the Civil War still raises issues is because many of the same problems still exist; Federal law trumping citizen rights, elitism, the use of Federal force against Americans, immigration.

    It proved Lincoln's War started the draft; unprecedented in US history.

    It pointed out that New York also thought about seceding because the war and loss of business with the South was crippling them.

    It raised the ugly head of elitism since the rich could buy their way out of the draft whereas the poor were stuck with going to war.

    It used Federal troops to quell the rioting resulting in the deaths of American citizens. The official death toll was 119 but the true number could be over 1200 since many of the dead were Irish immigrants who were considered on the level of African-Americans by Northern racists so leaders didn't give a shit about them. Irish immigrants were pouring in by the thousands and were considered as expendable as yesterday's newspaper.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...ar/draft-riots
    The New York Draft Riots occurred in July 1863, when the anger of working-class New Yorkers over a new federal draft law during the Civil War sparked five days of some of the bloodiest and most destructive rioting in U.S. history. Hundreds of people were killed, many more seriously injured, and African-Americans were often the target of the rioters’ violence....

    ...Facing a dire shortage of manpower in early 1863, Lincoln’s government passed a strict new conscription law, which made all male citizens between 20 and 35 and all unmarried men between 35 and 45 subject to military duty.

    Though all eligible men were entered into a lottery, they could buy their way out of harm’s way by hiring a substitute or paying $300 to the government (roughly $5,800 today).

    At the time, that sum was the yearly salary for the average American worker, making avoiding the draft impossible for all but the wealthiest of men. Compounding the issue, African Americans were exempt from the draft, as they were not considered citizens.
    It was during slavery. The blacks they brought over to work in farms were obviously not citizens. How could that be? They had no qualifications. The next generation, their kids, should have been declared citizens immediately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    It was during slavery. The blacks they brought over to work in farms were obviously not citizens. How could that be? They had no qualifications. The next generation, their kids, should have been declared citizens immediately.
    The point being that ideals and circumstances of the time where quite different. It's silly for someone to hold the South to 21st Century standard then give New York a pass because "it was the times". Note that New York was on the verge of succeeding too for the same reason as other states: Their economic welfare.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Hello Dutch Uncle,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    The point being that ideals and circumstances of the time where quite different. It's silly for someone to hold the South to 21st Century standard then give New York a pass because "it was the times". Note that New York was on the verge of succeeding too for the same reason as other states: Their economic welfare.
    I think it can be said that New York, with the Big Apple, has succeeded quite admirably.

    And it still enjoys great success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Dutch Uncle,
    I think it can be said that New York, with the Big Apple, has succeeded quite admirably.

    And it still enjoys great success.
    Sorry, for the type. The word was seceding, not succeeding, as previously pointed out:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Last night I watched "The Gangs of New York" again. The 1863 New York draft riots played a key part of the movie and raised an important part of history. One reason why the Civil War still raises issues is because many of the same problems still exist; Federal law trumping citizen rights, elitism, the use of Federal force against Americans, immigration.

    It proved Lincoln's War started the draft; unprecedented in US history.

    It pointed out that New York also thought about seceding because the war and loss of business with the South was crippling them.

    It raised the ugly head of elitism since the rich could buy their way out of the draft whereas the poor were stuck with going to war.

    It used Federal troops to quell the rioting resulting in the deaths of American citizens. The official death toll was 119 but the true number could be over 1200 since many of the dead were Irish immigrants who were considered on the level of African-Americans by Northern racists so leaders didn't give a shit about them. Irish immigrants were pouring in by the thousands and were considered as expendable as yesterday's newspaper.

    https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...ar/draft-riots
    The New York Draft Riots occurred in July 1863, when the anger of working-class New Yorkers over a new federal draft law during the Civil War sparked five days of some of the bloodiest and most destructive rioting in U.S. history. Hundreds of people were killed, many more seriously injured, and African-Americans were often the target of the rioters’ violence....

    ...Facing a dire shortage of manpower in early 1863, Lincoln’s government passed a strict new conscription law, which made all male citizens between 20 and 35 and all unmarried men between 35 and 45 subject to military duty.

    Though all eligible men were entered into a lottery, they could buy their way out of harm’s way by hiring a substitute or paying $300 to the government (roughly $5,800 today).

    At the time, that sum was the yearly salary for the average American worker, making avoiding the draft impossible for all but the wealthiest of men. Compounding the issue, African Americans were exempt from the draft, as they were not considered citizens.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Sorry, for the type. The word was seceding, not succeeding, as previously pointed out:
    you know what else is the ugly head of elitism?

    people believing it's fine to send other people's jobs overseas.

    wealthy who believe it's fine to destroy the economy cuz virus hoax because they already got theirs.
    Last edited by Hermes Thoth; 07-02-2020 at 08:21 AM.

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    Hello Dutch Uncle,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Sorry, for the type. The word was seceding, not succeeding, as previously pointed out:
    Just messin with ya.

    Sorry. Weird sense of humor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Dutch Uncle,



    Just messin with ya.

    Sorry. Weird sense of humor.

    No worries. I should have caught the typo.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Hello Dutch Uncle,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    No worries. I should have caught the typo.
    If all the States seceded from the Union there would be no more USA.

    If the Southern States could have gotten the Northern States to secede then the Southern States would not have had to secede, and they could have then dominated the federal government and ensured their precious slavery would never be outlawed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Dutch Uncle,



    If all the States seceded from the Union there would be no more USA.

    If the Southern States could have gotten the Northern States to secede then the Southern States would not have had to secede, and they could have then dominated the federal government and ensured their precious slavery would never be outlawed.
    Names would change but the people would remain the same. A lot of things that shaped the US would still exist. Even if Lincoln hadn't violated the Constitution and invaded Virginia, I doubt the split would have lasted long. Too much money to be made working together. At some point a "Reunification" movement would have begun. The Civil War was known to be "brother fighting brother". A peaceful split would have seen families still split and they'd want to reunite just like Germany did after the Cold War.

    As for slavery, it was dying out too due to Christian ideals in the US. Something the Lefties are always bitching about, but it was the backbone of abolitionism. Technology would have made slaves obsolete and too costly the same way tractors and columbines made horses and oxen obsolete for farming.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Hello Dutch Uncle,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Names would change but the people would remain the same. A lot of things that shaped the US would still exist. Even if Lincoln hadn't violated the Constitution and invaded Virginia, I doubt the split would have lasted long. Too much money to be made working together. At some point a "Reunification" movement would have begun. The Civil War was known to be "brother fighting brother". A peaceful split would have seen families still split and they'd want to reunite just like Germany did after the Cold War.

    As for slavery, it was dying out too due to Christian ideals in the US. Something the Lefties are always bitching about, but it was the backbone of abolitionism. Technology would have made slaves obsolete and too costly the same way tractors and columbines made horses and oxen obsolete for farming.
    The reason the Northern economy outpaced the Southern economy was because of industrialism and technological advancement.
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    There was far more job creation in the North.
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