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Thread: The Eastern Jesus

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    Default The Eastern Jesus


    Jesus and the Samaritan woman at the well; illustration from the Mirror of Holiness, an account of the life of Christ by the Jesuit priest Jerome Xavier for the Mughal emperor Akbar, India, 1602–1604.
    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...=pocket-newtab
    Over the past few years, the authorities in Beijing have given churches across the country orders to “Sinicize” their faith. According to detailed five-year plans formulated by both Catholic and Protestant organizations, much of this process involves the predictable palaver of state control: “to actively practice core values of socialism, love the motherland passionately, support the leadership of the Communist Party, obey the law and serve society.”1

    But the authorities want more than just political control; they want a say over Christianity’s spirit, too. According to one document, “Chinese styles” are to be promoted in the religion’s “building, painting, music, and art,” and also in Christian liturgy and theology. Other documents speak of reflecting Chinese traditions, but what this means isn’t exactly clear—perhaps filial piety, ancestor worship, and explicitly rejecting foreign influence.

    While these new regulations affect China’s other religions too, they hit each one in different ways.
    They probably matter least to Daoism, which is an indigenous Chinese religion, and little to Buddhism, which is a global religion but has been in China for so many centuries that it has spawned local schools and practices. But for China’s other two main religions, Islam and Christianity, the rules raise serious concerns. In the case of Islam, the state’s aim seems to be mainly political control of sensitive border regions, because of the faith’s predominance among several ethnic minorities, especially the Hui and the Uighurs, who live in China’s far west.

    Christianity poses a subtler and possibly more profound challenge. This is not only because it has spread among the ethnic Chinese, or Han, majority, who make up 92 percent of China’s population, but also because it has grown fastest not in remote border regions but in the cultural heartland and among white-collar professionals who are supposed to be leading China’s modernization. This makes Christianity the first foreign religion to gain a central place in China since Buddhism’s arrival two millennia ago. Hence the authorities’ unease and their vague desire for Christianity to become something Chinese and nonthreatening.

    These concerns have arisen before. Christianity has had a presence in China for four hundred years. Missionaries such as the Jesuit Matteo Ricci got a foothold in the country by acting like Confucian officials: dressing in gowns, learning the formal language of classical Chinese, and downplaying differences between Christianity and Chinese thought.
    The Jesuits called God tianzhu, or “lord of heaven,” a plausible term for the Heavenly Father, but not coincidentally also the name of an old Chinese deity. Over the following decades, Christianity spread in North China by fitting into familiar folk religious patterns: offering moral precepts that sounded like Confucian principles or worshipping a virgin saint who seemed much like local female deities. Missionaries in this era, before imperialism made them arrogant, softened unfamiliar or disturbing ideas, such as Jesus’s crucifixion and resurrection.2

    The new effort to sinicize Christianity is something different—and probably unique in its encounter with Asia.
    In years past, Chinese and other Asian governments were weak, and even if Christianity found followers it was later tarnished by the fact that missionaries arrived along with Western gunboats.
    Now we have a strong government in Beijing that accepts the reality of Christianity but wants it to conform to Chinese foreign and domestic policy. This isn’t unusual in Christian history—look at the innumerable British churches with tableaux and plaques that glorify British imperialism—but Beijing’s firmness is something new in Asia.

    In Jesus in Asia, R.S. Sugirtharajah recounts earlier Asian efforts to make sense of Christianity and to disentangle it from imperialism. Sugirtharajah, one of the foremost scholars of global Christianity, a Sri Lankan native and professor emeritus of biblical studies at the University of Birmingham, has written extensively about Christianity’s influence in the developing world. In this book, Sugirtharajah shows how Jesus has been promoted, despised, and utilized in Asia. He begins in China around the seventh century and ends in twentieth-century South Korea and Japan, but is mainly concerned with thinkers from the Indian subcontinent.

    It is here that Sugirtharajah shines. He introduces us to intellectuals—some believers, many not—who grappled with Jesus as a historical figure and a person with a place in Asian religions. Most were not interested in academic searches for the historical Jesus—in other words, in textual analyses that might or might not prove that he existed, or the probability that he carried out certain acts. Instead, they examined the man and his message, comparing him with other religious figures, such as Zoroaster, Buddha, and Krishna.

    Sugirtharajah discusses many memorable people, such as the Sri Lankan Hindu thinker Ponnambalam Ramanathan (1851–1930). Like many others featured in the book, Ramanathan was less interested in the flesh-and-blood Jesus than in his spirit. He lauded his childlike nature and ability to reveal God, writing, “Jesus found Christ within himself, and through the Christ within, he attained God.”

    But Ramanathan was also irritated by the biblical accounts of Jesus’s lineage to King David, seeing them as a needless diversion to satisfy Jewish audiences. As for Jesus’s resurrection, Ramanathan dismissed it as a “vulgar doctrine,” arguing that it must be understood symbolically, not literally. Ramanathan wrote two books about Jesus and also went on a speaking tour of the United States, where he told audiences that Christian ideas, such as the kingdom of God being within oneself or neighborly love, are not originally Christian but the “old Hindu doctrine, and it has been brought to you by your own religious teacher, Jesus Christ.”

    This illustrates one of Sugirtharajah’s main points: that Asians decolonized Jesus, often by making him into an Eastern mystic whose teachings were profound but nothing special, and indeed were often inferior to Asian traditions. This was achieved not through strict academic inquiry but a selective and sometimes polemical reading of the Bible, in which useful passages were accepted and others were dismissed or ignored.

    These were methods used by C.T. Alahasundram (1873–1941), who took his paternal grandfather’s name, Francis Kingsbury. Kingsbury also wrote a book about Jesus that ruthlessly omitted events he thought were useless or unconvincing to a person from the subcontinent. So out with the nativity story, the genealogical links to King David, and Jesus’s temptation. Instead, Kingsbury thought Jesus was mainly significant for his ethical views, which he equated with those of Buddha.

    This drawing of equivalences between Jesus and local religious figures was also the method used by one of the book’s most striking figures, the Jain convert Manilal Parekh (1885–1967), who saw Jesus as a Tirthankara—a savior and spiritual teacher in the Jain faith. Parekh tried to cleanse Christianity of European culture and imperialism, for example by dismissing its denominational differences as having been introduced by European missionaries. As Sugirtharajah puts it, “He saw his task as making Jesus suitable and intelligible to Indian spirituality.”

    Thus in Parekh’s book A Hindu’s Portrait of Jesus Christ (1953), he tossed out the virgin birth—a strange event that he saw as irrelevant to Jesus’s importance—and Jesus’s uniqueness as the only son of God, a claim he thought exaggerated. He also found much of Jesus’s life unappealing, describing him as a villager from Palestine with a narrow worldview who seemed unaware that his country was occupied by Rome. His “mental horizon,” according to Parekh, seemed “confined entirely to the Jewish world.”
    j
    As for the miracles, they were commonplace among Hindu and Muslim healers on the subcontinent and so for Indians wouldn’t “add an iota to [Jesus’s] moral and spiritual greatness in their eyes.” As a Jain, Parekh also found fault in Jesus for eating meat, offering fish to hungry followers, and venting his anger at a tree, which he said showed him to be “unreasonable and unnecessarily petulant.”

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    Matt Dillon (06-07-2020)

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    It's difficult for most people to believe in Man-Gods.
    I think you have to be indoctrinated at an early age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    It's difficult for most people to believe in Man-Gods.
    I think you have to be indoctrinated at an early age.
    only a woke 21st century American would say that.
    Jesus is big in China, of course not like Buddha ( not a god) or native Daoism

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    That's a pretty good read, thanks!

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    dukkha (06-08-2020)

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    Not sure what the point of the article is but Hui are not a foreign ppl like the Turks-Uighurs..

    They are ethnic Han Chinese. There are millions of Christians practicing there, w/ some persecution & I have read the Catholic Church as agreed to concessions, including allowing the CCP to have say~dictatorial control of Bishops/Cardinals etc.....

    I wonder if this means they could actually have a CCP Pope some day??

    There is even a grass roots Chinese based churchs in the USA/west most ppl never heard of via the teachings of Watchman Lee & Watchman Nee..... (Both have interesting reads & history)...

    There are also many mainstream denominations w/ predominantly Chinese congregations, including Southern Baptist, Methodist etc...

    The local one has an English service for most as well as a Cantonese service & added a Mandarin one a couple years ago..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    only a woke 21st century American would say that.
    Jesus is big in China, of course not like Buddha ( not a god) or native Daoism
    Do they really believe in Jesus or are they trying to convince themselves he's a god?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    It's difficult for most people to believe in Man-Gods.
    I think you have to be indoctrinated at an early age.
    Has nothing to do with that.
    It has to do with having the Holy Spirit living thru you
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

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    Christianity has had a presence in China for four hundred years.

    Missionaries such as the Jesuit Matteo Ricci got a foothold in the country by acting like Confucian officials: dressing in gowns, learning the formal language of classical Chinese, and downplaying differences between Christianity and Chinese thought.
    Christianity has been in east Asia longer than 400 years ago, that is a conceit of the western Church.

    Nestorian Christians were in east Asia a thousand years ago, and either Genghis Khan or some of his sons were married to Nestorian Christian women.

    Because of the Mongol conquest, there were Nestorian Christians in China during the Yuan dynasty.

    There is no doubt though, that Christianity was never a major player in China until the last century

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Christianity has been in east Asia longer than 400 years ago, that is a conceit of the western Church.

    Nestorian Christians were in east Asia a thousand years ago, and either Genghis Khan or some of his sons were married to Nestorian Christian women.

    Because of the Mongol conquest, there were Nestorian Christians in China during the Yuan dynasty.

    There is no doubt though, that Christianity was never a major player in China until the last century
    Yep, India as well, & same result........

    I do think many Chinese find Islamic dietary restrictions odd & prob repugnant.. More Peking pork for the rest of us~(I'm eating some right now)....lol
    Last edited by Bill; 06-07-2020 at 06:43 PM.
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Yep, India as well, & same result........

    I do think many Chinese find Islamic dietary restrictions odd & prob repugnant.. More Peking port for the rest of us~(I'm eating some right now)....lol
    I do feel guilty about eating the noble and intelligent pig, but they are so damn tasty!

    Our traditional historical education basically stops at the Rhine River, and barely acknowledges anything east of that, so I will not begrudge anyone for not knowing about Nestorians, Coptics, Manichaeans, et al.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I do feel guilty about eating the noble and intelligent pig, but they are so damn tasty!

    Our traditional historical education basically stops at the Rhine River, and barely acknowledges anything east of that, so I will not begrudge anyone for not knowing about Nestorians, Coptics, Manichaeans, et al.
    Very true...... When I was out of school & started learning about it, it was kinda unbelievable & western history seemed very boring, although now I am interested again..

    I have listened to several audio books dealing Rome, Augustine & some of the early movements in the Levant like sitting on a pole for 30+ years & the fools movement, asceticism & monasticism as well.......

    Always arguing about something lol
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Very true...... When I was out of school & started learning about it, it was kinda unbelievable & western history seemed very boring, although now I am interested again..

    I have listened to several audio books dealing Rome, Augustine & some of the early movements in the Levant like sitting on a pole for 30+ years & the fools movement, asceticism & monasticism as well.......

    Always arguing about something lol
    Those pole sitter guys are beyond comprehension.

    I heard someone say that until the 1970s, the history profession was dominated by white anglo saxon protestant males, and that translated to a very Anglo centric perspective on history.

    We are now starting to see a more global perspective on history since the profession is more diverse now. Personally, I do not think one can really understand western history without knowing something about Islamic history, Christian theology, Near Eastern history, Byzantine history, and central Asian history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Those pole sitter guys are beyond comprehension.

    I heard someone say that until the 1970s, the history profession was dominated by white anglo saxon protestant males, and that translated to a very Anglo centric perspective on history.

    We are now starting to see a more global perspective on history since the profession is more diverse now. Personally, I do not think one can really understand western history without knowing something about Islamic history, Christian theology, Near Eastern history, Byzantine history, and central Asian history.
    Yep......... & you know many have no idea.

    I was very impressed w/ Mott & his knowledge of Roman history.......... He had some great posts about it which I enjoyed reading......

    Recently my focus has been on China, which I hardly knew/know anything about historically.. I have read about Indian history, especially as it pertains to the Moguls-Afghani-NAM & Persia but the multisyllable names were tough-annoying...

    The great "exploration" wasn't really as much an exploration as exploitation & an unbelievable amount of luck & timing..

    For the vast majority of history China alone accounted for about 25% of world GDP, & India almost as much......... The crumbs fell to the rest of us...

    It has been only over the last 200+ years or so when this wasn't the case, but they're back now...

    The Euro-centrict world is coming to an end & for many that is really unfathomable...

    They cannot see or accept that we will soon be the second largest economy in the world, muchless shortly after passed to be the 3rd.........
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Yep......... & you know many have no idea.

    I was very impressed w/ Mott & his knowledge of Roman history.......... He had some great posts about it which I enjoyed reading......

    Recently my focus has been on China, which I hardly knew/know anything about historically.. I have read about Indian history, especially as it pertains to the Moguls-Afghani-NAM & Persia but the multisyllable names were tough-annoying...

    The great "exploration" wasn't really as much an exploration as exploitation & an unbelievable amount of luck & timing..

    For the vast majority of history China alone accounted for about 25% of world GDP, & India almost as much......... The crumbs fell to the rest of us...

    It has been only over the last 200+ years or so when this wasn't the case, but they're back now...

    The Euro-centrict world is coming to an end & for many that is really unfathomable...

    They cannot see or accept that we will soon be the second largest economy in the world, muchless shortly after passed to be the 3rd.........
    Keep up the good work.


    Mott really knows his Roman history and military history. I am going to give him a D plus in Chinese history, and myself a C minus!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Not sure what the point of the article is but Hui are not a foreign ppl like the Turks-Uighurs..

    They are ethnic Han Chinese. There are millions of Christians practicing there, w/ some persecution & I have read the Catholic Church as agreed to concessions, including allowing the CCP to have say~dictatorial control of Bishops/Cardinals etc.....

    I wonder if this means they could actually have a CCP Pope some day??

    There is even a grass roots Chinese based churchs in the USA/west most ppl never heard of via the teachings of Watchman Lee & Watchman Nee..... (Both have interesting reads & history)...

    There are also many mainstream denominations w/ predominantly Chinese congregations, including Southern Baptist, Methodist etc...

    The local one has an English service for most as well as a Cantonese service & added a Mandarin one a couple years ago..
    awesome info.. thanks. The rest of the article link goes into how Asian Christians in general adapt the Jesus to their own cultures to make the western Jesus more acceptable to eastern eyes.

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