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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaktajan View Post
    During your lifetime [or even in the history book], can you name one "rule" that was not "received" via others?

    By "received via others" I am referring to the NOT via a revelation.
    Posted by Damocles
    Of course not. That's an absurdity. Why would I be able to do that when I don't believe that this god exists?
    I'm not sure which idea you said "Of course not."

    If I understand correctly, you CANNOT you name one "rule" that you "received" via others that was a "revelation".

    If I understood you, you can only acknowledge "rules" "received" via others. Correct?


    If I understand correctly, rules declared in someones' scriptures are rules you may ignore.

    If I understand correctly, rules declared by living men, ie Tax-Code, and speed limits, and weather reports are rules you always follow. Correct?


    My point was that when disregarding rules via scriptures ---you do follow rules that human authorities define, and/or enforce.

    Good Billy Pilgram?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaktajan View Post
    I'm not sure which idea you said "Of course not."

    If I understand correctly, you CANNOT you name one "rule" that you "received" via others that was a "revelation".

    If I understood you, you can only acknowledge "rules" "received" via others. Correct?


    If I understand correctly, rules declared in someones' scriptures are rules you may ignore.

    If I understand correctly, rules declared by living men, ie Tax-Code, and speed limits, and weather reports are rules you always follow. Correct?


    My point was that when disregarding rules via scriptures ---you do follow rules that human authorities define, and/or enforce.

    Good Billy Pilgram?
    THIS goes without saying, but I'm glad you DID say it. Nicely done.

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    Many attempt to present "Faith" as something that exists only through having a simple belief in something and you have to do nothing but believe and you will find salvation through the grace of Christ.....that's not the Biblical Definition of Faith.

    Biblical Faith can be defined as a deep, everlasting trust and confidence in our Creator God. But to stop at that simple conclusion is not revealing the entirety of what the Holy Scripture say about and define the faith that God requires.

    Its false doctrine to teach that an acknowledgement of God's existence is all that matters and nothing else is required. That type of teaching does not square with scriptural teaching. In the Book of Hebrews the Apostle Paul teaches us, that Jesus is, ".....The Author of eternal salvation TO ALL THAT OBEY HIM." -- Heb. 5:9

    Biblical faith is not a faith of denying History, Science, etc., Biblical Faith exists as a LIVING, ACTIVE ingredient of the faith holders character. Faith always effects the believers conduct in doing what is good and righteous (simply because one does not always agree with what is good and righteous does make any believers faith null and void as we are to each WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION IN FEAR AND TREMBLING.....as its a great responsibility to fall into the hands of a righteous God. With Faith comes Responsibility first and foremost is defense of the gospel truth.

    A faith that takes no action, does nothing but believe is worthless, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says they have faith but does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?" -- James 2:14

    Even demons have faith that God exists, "You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble." -- James 2:19

    So the scriptures correct the false doctrine that believing in God and having a great trust and confidence is not enough...there is more required than belief.....Biblical Faith requires you to be willing to do what God requires. Any faith that omits an obedient heart has failed greatly to comprehend all of God's word completely.

    Truth is the work that God values most.....and what is truth, where does it originate? Science is not THE TRUTH, not according to Carl Sagan.....Science is filled with errors, "Science......a way of thinking, and error correcting process by which we attempt to figure out what is true and what is not." -- Carl Sagan Think about what Sagan was saying, Science makes mistakes things, discoveries supposedly based upon truth, go a long time and someone makes a discovery that makes what was taught as truth the 1st time........a lie. Example......the age of the earth has jumped billions of years in my single lifetime.......it was taught in grammar school that the earth was so many billions of years old, then in high school another number tossed out......and today....the earth has aged billions of years in less than 1 century.....go figure........I can't.

    What is Biblical Truth? Its something that the scriptures declare we should be sanctified in (sanctified: keep holy) Where does truth come from? "Sanctify them in THE TRUTH; Thy Word is Truth." -- John 17:17

    Thus if anyone teaches something that is contrary to what is taught in THE WORD OF GOD....its false doctrine.

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  7. #139 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Many attempt to present "Faith" as something that exists only through having a simple belief in something and you have to do nothing but believe and you will find salvation through the grace of Christ.....that's not the Biblical Definition of Faith.

    Biblical Faith can be defined as a deep, everlasting trust and confidence in our Creator God. But to stop at that simple conclusion is not revealing the entirety of what the Holy Scripture say about and define the faith that God requires.

    Its false doctrine to teach that an acknowledgement of God's existence is all that matters and nothing else is required. That type of teaching does not square with scriptural teaching. In the Book of Hebrews the Apostle Paul teaches us, that Jesus is, ".....The Author of eternal salvation TO ALL THAT OBEY HIM." -- Heb. 5:9

    Biblical faith is not a faith of denying History, Science, etc., Biblical Faith exists as a LIVING, ACTIVE ingredient of the faith holders character. Faith always effects the believers conduct in doing what is good and righteous (simply because one does not always agree with what is good and righteous does make any believers faith null and void as we are to each WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION IN FEAR AND TREMBLING.....as its a great responsibility to fall into the hands of a righteous God. With Faith comes Responsibility first and foremost is defense of the gospel truth.

    A faith that takes no action, does nothing but believe is worthless, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says they have faith but does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?" -- James 2:14

    Even demons have faith that God exists, "You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble." -- James 2:19

    So the scriptures correct the false doctrine that believing in God and having a great trust and confidence is not enough...there is more required than belief.....Biblical Faith requires you to be willing to do what God requires. Any faith that omits an obedient heart has failed greatly to comprehend all of God's word completely.

    Truth is the work that God values most.....and what is truth, where does it originate? Science is not THE TRUTH, not according to Carl Sagan.....Science is filled with errors, "Science......a way of thinking, and error correcting process by which we attempt to figure out what is true and what is not." -- Carl Sagan Think about what Sagan was saying, Science makes mistakes things, discoveries supposedly based upon truth, go a long time and someone makes a discovery that makes what was taught as truth the 1st time........a lie. Example......the age of the earth has jumped billions of years in my single lifetime.......it was taught in grammar school that the earth was so many billions of years old, then in high school another number tossed out......and today....the earth has aged billions of years in less than 1 century.....go figure........I can't.

    What is Biblical Truth? Its something that the scriptures declare we should be sanctified in (sanctified: keep holy) Where does truth come from? "Sanctify them in THE TRUTH; Thy Word is Truth." -- John 17:17

    Thus if anyone teaches something that is contrary to what is taught in THE WORD OF GOD....its false doctrine.
    Fantastic post, Ralph. Thank you.

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    I say whatever works for you is awesome, but that is your path and your path is not my path. You keep to your path and I’ll keep to mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    I say whatever works for you is awesome, but that is your path and your path is not my path. You keep to your path and I’ll keep to mine.
    Good point, Phanny, good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    I say whatever works for you is awesome, but that is your path and your path is not my path. You keep to your path and I’ll keep to mine.
    There are many paths....but only ONE that leads to a truthful relationship with the God of Creation. "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate broad is way that leads to destruction, and there be many that who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there be few that find it." -- Matthew 7:13-14

    No one is allowed to DO THEIR OWN THING nor SEEK OUT THEIR OWN PATH...the scriptures admonish all Christians to speak the same thing, to act the same way....this is accomplished by following the righteous doctrine delivered once for all time (Jude 3). There are no new revelations.......Jesus the Christ appointed the Apostles to deliver what was necessary....today the words of the Apostles...i.e., the WORDS OF THE CHRIST were recorded but once. For all Christians to be as one as instructed.....they all must use the same Doctrine in its entirety (not cherry picked phrases twisted to fit any individual ideology....as the scriptures are not for private interpretation, The saints ...ie.., delivered and interpreted the Word of God for everyone.

    We are all to speak with one voice, "Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement." -- 1 Cor. 1:10

    Private interpretation? "....knowing this first, that no word of prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. For prophecy never came by the will of man, but by holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." -- 2 Peter 1:20-21

    Anyone that claims they are in direct communication with God today...are liars or insane. If indeed God is playing favorites (which He claims He does not, Romans 2:11) among men.....all these supposed modern communications should be put to script and used as Books of the Holy Scriptures.....of course after they are confirmed in the same manner as was the scriptures confirmed in the 1st century by the Apostles of Christ...with miraculous signs and wonders......raising the dead, healing the sick, curing the crippled, giving sight to the blind....with no failures BECAUSE THE INFIRMED LACKED FAITH.

    Signs and Wonders....THE MIRACULOUS was used to confirm the fact that the Apostles were delivering the Word of God (Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4, 2 Cor. 12:12)

    Consider the words of Paul the Apostle as to the purpose of the miraculous signs and wonders, "Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in sings and wonders and mighty deeds." -- 2 Cor. 12:12

    Who had access to these signs and wonders besides those appointed by God in the 1st century? What happened with Simon the sorcerer (male witch) witnessed the miraculous event through the laying on of hands by those appointed by an Apostle. Peter when asked by this sorcerer to give him the gift of the Holy Spirit if he gave the apostle money in exchange for that gift,.........Peter told him, You have neither part portion in this matter....may your money perish with you. (Acts 8:17-20)

    The Apostles told us these signs and wonders would fade away when the perfect law of liberty was recorded once for all time....there would be no need to act like children playing church any longer......we were to be mature once all the truth was delivered, to put away childish play acting. (1 Cor. 13)
    Last edited by Ralph; 07-10-2020 at 12:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    There are many paths....but only ONE that leads to a truthful relationship with the God of Creation. "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate broad is way that leads to destruction, and there be many that who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there be few that find it." -- Matthew 7:13-14

    No one is allowed to DO THEIR OWN THING nor SEEK OUT THEIR OWN PATH...the scriptures admonish all Christians to speak the same thing, to act the same way....this is accomplished by following the righteous doctrine delivered once for all time (Jude 3). There are no new revelations.......Jesus the Christ appointed the Apostles to deliver what was necessary....today the words of the Apostles...i.e., the WORDS OF THE CHRIST were recorded but once. For all Christians to be as one as instructed.....they all must use the same Doctrine in its entirety (not cherry picked phrases twisted to fit any individual ideology....as the scriptures are not for private interpretation, The saints ...ie.., delivered and interpreted the Word of God for everyone.

    We are all to speak with one voice, "Now I plead with you brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgement." -- 1 Cor. 1:10

    Private interpretation? "....knowing this first, that no word of prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. For prophecy never came by the will of man, but by holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." -- 2 Peter 1:20-21

    Anyone that claims they are in direct communication with God today...are liars or insane. If indeed God is playing favorites (which He claims He does not, Romans 2:11) among men.....all these supposed modern communications should be put to script and used as Books of the Holy Scriptures.....of course after they are confirmed in the same manner as was the scriptures confirmed in the 1st century by the Apostles of Christ...with miraculous signs and wonders......raising the dead, healing the sick, curing the crippled, giving sight to the blind....with no failures BECAUSE THE INFIRMED LACKED FAITH.

    Signs and Wonders....THE MIRACULOUS was used to confirm the fact that the Apostles were delivering the Word of God (Acts 2:22, Hebrews 2:4, 2 Cor. 12:12)

    Consider the words of Paul the Apostle as to the purpose of the miraculous signs and wonders, "Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in sings and wonders and mighty deeds." -- 2 Cor. 12:12

    Who had access to these signs and wonders besides those appointed by God in the 1st century? What happened with Simon the Saucer (male witch) witnessed the miraculous event through the laying on of hands by those appointed by an Apostle. Peter when asked by this saucer to give him the gift of the Holy Spirit if he gave the apostle money in exchange for that gift,.........Peter told him, You have neither part portion in this matter....may your money perish with you. (Acts 8:17-20)

    The Apostles told us these signs and wonders would fade away when the perfect law of liberty was recorded once for all time....there would be no need to act like children playing church any longer......we were to be mature once all the truth was delivered, to put away childish play acting. (1 Cor. 13)
    Thank you for another fine post, Ralph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    One of the questions I asked when I was a child was why god would need me to tell him what I needed when he is supposed to know everything, see everything, and be all powerful?

    Another I asked is why would this god want us to worship them, my mother doesn't want me to worship her, why would this person that I am supposed to see as a dad want my worship?
    Good. Or God is a narcissist like Mr Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonsprat22 View Post
    Good. Or God is a narcissist like Mr Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonsprat22 View Post
    Good. Or God is a narcissist like Mr Trump.
    When engaging in a battle of wits with the Holy Spirit of God its best not to engage God with an empty chamber. God pays no attention to supposed GOTCHA accusations. The first misrepresentation of scripture is the attempt to define WORSHIP in a secular fashion. Worship as defined by Jesus the Christ is not the bowing down to some powerful, all knowing, all powerful person (like one's mother is to a son).....worship must be demonstrated in respectful truth......coming from one's heart, not because of fear...but because of love.

    God is a spirit and must be worshiped IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH (indicating what? one can worship in spirit without worshiping in truth...this type of worship is useless because its not based upon a strong foundation of truth....faith must have a strong foundation....the more you worship in spirit and truth the greater your personal faith becomes).

    When the Christ was addressing the Samaritan Woman at the well He declared, "..believe Me a time is coming when you will worship the Father (God) neither on the mountain or in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know, for salvation is from the Jews. (Worshiping only by the supposed letter of the law, ignoring the spirit by which God intended the law to be used to teach righteousness) Yet a time is coming, and has come now when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in Spirit and truth." -- John 4:21-24

    Personally, I simply cannot understand any son that does not worship (symbolically as only God is to be worshiped) his MOTHER in love, as she is the reason for his very being (existence). What son would not lay down his own life to save his mother? That is true worship. That relationship that a loving son has with his mother is the type of Worship that the Father seeks from those who believe....any type of worship that does not come from LOVE is useless worship.

    There is a distinction between worship and service. Worship is giving God honor and praise....(just as you would do you give to your mother). One does not worship the Father because He is all powerful, all knowing....One worships (gives honor and praise) because of a Love for that Father. On the other hand SERVICE to the Father is simply being obedient.

    Obedient to what? We are created in the image of God.....yet we all are different in a physical sense, there are genders, races, different heights, different weights...etc., thus we are created in the Spiritual Image of God as God is a spirit ...meaning that we are like God in spirit....we as humans are the only animals ever created that knows the difference between right and wrong, the only creature that was created on earth that plans for his/her own mortality. When this physical body dies.....our spirit that animates the flesh goes back to the creating force.

    How do we know this spiritual force comes from a supernatural source? Because no natural force on earth can reproduce that gift of life. Science can take a living being and disassemble it down to a cellular level........but science cannot put that puzzle back together and animate that pile of flesh.

    On earth in this realm of reality LIFE begets LIFE.....within species, life cannot be reproduced void of pre-existing life. Science (man's limited knowledge) cannot create life. That fact alone makes it obvious that something SUPER (ior) to Nature .....Supernatural must have accounted for that first sample of life. There has never been an example of any type of Spontaneous Generation of life...never. Life can only be reproduced through existing life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    When engaging in a battle of wits with the Holy Spirit of God its best not to engage God with an empty chamber. God pays no attention to supposed GOTCHA accusations. The first misrepresentation of scripture is the attempt to define WORSHIP in a secular fashion. Worship as defined by Jesus the Christ is not the bowing down to some powerful, all knowing, all powerful person (like one's mother is to a son).....worship must be demonstrated in respectful truth......coming from one's heart, not because of fear...but because of love.

    God is a spirit and must be worshiped IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH (indicating what? one can worship in spirit without worshiping in truth...this type of worship is useless because its not based upon a strong foundation of truth....faith must have a strong foundation....the more you worship in spirit and truth the greater your personal faith becomes).

    When the Christ was addressing the Samaritan Woman at the well He declared, "..believe Me a time is coming when you will worship the Father (God) neither on the mountain or in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know, for salvation is from the Jews. (Worshiping only by the supposed letter of the law, ignoring the spirit by which God intended the law to be used to teach righteousness) Yet a time is coming, and has come now when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in Spirit and truth." -- John 4:21-24

    Personally, I simply cannot understand any son that does not worship (symbolically as only God is to be worshiped) his MOTHER in love, as she is the reason for his very being (existence). What son would not lay down his own life to save his mother? That is true worship. That relationship that a loving son has with his mother is the type of Worship that the Father seeks from those who believe....any type of worship that does not come from LOVE is useless worship.

    There is a distinction between worship and service. Worship is giving God honor and praise....(just as you would do you give to your mother). One does not worship the Father because He is all powerful, all knowing....One worships (gives honor and praise) because of a Love for that Father. On the other hand SERVICE to the Father is simply being obedient.

    Obedient to what? We are created in the image of God.....yet we all are different in a physical sense, there are genders, races, different heights, different weights...etc., thus we are created in the Spiritual Image of God as God is a spirit ...meaning that we are like God in spirit....we as humans are the only animals ever created that knows the difference between right and wrong, the only creature that was created on earth that plans for his/her own mortality. When this physical body dies.....our spirit that animates the flesh goes back to the creating force.

    How do we know this spiritual force comes from a supernatural source? Because no natural force on earth can reproduce that gift of life. Science can take a living being and disassemble it down to a cellular level........but science cannot put that puzzle back together and animate that pile of flesh.

    On earth in this realm of reality LIFE begets LIFE.....within species, life cannot be reproduced void of pre-existing life. Science (man's limited knowledge) cannot create life. That fact alone makes it obvious that something SUPER (ior) to Nature .....Supernatural must have accounted for that first sample of life. There has never been an example of any type of Spontaneous Generation of life...never. Life can only be reproduced through existing life.
    Nice post, Ralph, nice post. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaktajan View Post
    He? How did this insight come to you? Years of monastic life? Years of serving the poor?

    desire? How did you learn about desire?

    delusion? How are you expert in recognising delusion?

    evidence? Who did all the somethings?



    Who did all the works around you? The pre-dementia zombies?


    Have you notice how many things exist that allow you to live ---things that control you:

    Digestion,
    Blood circulation,
    Breathing,
    Sleeping urges,
    Stirring awake,
    reproduction,
    health ...

    The above list is filled with works that you cannot counter act!

    You are NOT a "controller" you must do what nature forces you to do!

    Look around you ---you claim that the wood, plaster, metal, glass, electricity, water, fire, rain and toilet flushing is all due to mankind.

    Get a real job!
    No, it's all due to natural processes, either alone or as modified by man. There's zero indication of any supernatural Being.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RINO is the term for that rare Republican who puts country above party.

    Right wing = lie, lie, and lie some more.


    "When I am president I'm going to be working for you. I'm not going to have time to play golf" Donald J. Trump, world class snake oil salesman and compulsive golfer August 2016

    The definition of "racist" as "anyone who is white" is itself racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Powell
    It’s now ‘me the president’ instead of ‘we the people’

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonsprat22 View Post
    Good. Or God is a narcissist like Mr Trump.
    Much of the Bible is spent demonstrating God's narcissism.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RINO is the term for that rare Republican who puts country above party.

    Right wing = lie, lie, and lie some more.


    "When I am president I'm going to be working for you. I'm not going to have time to play golf" Donald J. Trump, world class snake oil salesman and compulsive golfer August 2016

    The definition of "racist" as "anyone who is white" is itself racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Powell
    It’s now ‘me the president’ instead of ‘we the people’

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjhenn View Post
    No, it's all due to natural processes, either alone or as modified by man. There's zero indication of any supernatural Being.
    You missed my pointing out how (you are) controlled in every regard.

    The only input (you) bring to the workings is desires.

    What to speak of losing 1/3rd of life in sleeping.

    Yes, you have 5 senses, as do all species of life, and, all species seek the same goals "eat, sleep, mate, defend".

    Beasts see humans as strangers to approach or flee from.

    We humans exhibit faith throughout the day ---In good Faith--- we bestow upon so many others around us BUT don't consider it acts of faith, ie:

    The cop will be fair.
    The judge will be fair,
    The price will be reasonable.
    The fire brigade will save the day.
    The taxi driver wont crash.
    The Airplane pilot wont crash.
    The sandwich is devoid of ecoli.
    The doctor rids the needle of air before injecting you.
    The post office will deliver the mail.
    The credit card scanner is not spammed.
    The prostitute wont rob you at gun point nor turn out to be a cop.
    The weather if fine.
    The toilet flushes fine, and there's plenty of TP.

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