Political Gang Cultures

[Doc Dutch]

I remember when I was learning to drive, I asked my dad how far ahead he looked, he said "As far as I can see".

When one looks back at history I say the same thing, look as far as you can see.

Note: I appreciate your civil and educated post.

Agreed on "As far as I can see". The longer the view, the deeper the perspective. The graphs below, taken in perspective, prove the world is doing much, much better in at least one area than is generally given.

[Hawkeye10]

Agreed on "As far as I can see". The longer the view, the deeper the perspective. The graphs below, taken in perspective, prove the world is doing much, much better in at least one area than is generally given.

But the people suck now, so many are deeply spiritually and morally broken, the quality of the lives degrade just as the quality of the people degrades.


I am at least taking a break, as I need to walk The Hound.

[Doc Dutch]

But the people suck now, so many are deeply spiritually and morally broken, the quality of the lives degrade just as the quality of the people degrades.


I am at least taking a break, as I need to walk The Hound.

My advice there is the same as to the woman who has a long list of sad, broken relationships: "Have you considered hanging around different people?"

I live in a rural area on two acres surrounded by others with 2-5 acres. A doggie door and a large fenced in backyard.
Yeah, I'm bragging that I haven't walked a dog at home for 22 years.

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Thanks for posting an interesting observation even though I disagree with some parts. First, a quick review of the European Colonial Era up through all those exciting changes in Germany circa 1930s prove none of this crap began with the United States. At worst, we imported it from our Euro brethren.

Second, the US is obviously the 400 lb gorilla in the room so, even though the US may be on par with other nations in terms of assholishness, it's felt more around the world because of our national powers.

Lastlyl, yes, democracy can survive, but as the US found out in Iraq, a "US-version of Democracy" doesn't easily transfer to other cultures. In the end, some form of Democratic Socialization will exist along with a global coalition government, but a lot of stuff has to happen to get there. Mainly technological, but also social. IMHO, a lot of the social stuff will follow the technology. I like to use the Star Trek analogy because Gene Roddenberry was pretty far sighted when it came to things like tech and society. A lot of the tech in his 1960s show exists now: communicators=cellphones, hospital beds which can read vitals, doors that automatically open and close, talking computers, etc. What we don't have yet but are essential to a "Star Trek" form of Democratic Socialism is both a "replicator"= 3D printer and fusion power. I think most of us will live to see the latter two but won't live long enough to see the "Star Trek" form of global society come into existence.

The point is that Europe experienced the fascist boot on its face, and saw it utterly defeated, except where it was kept artificially alive in Spain. Only the dimmest minority of nutters could actually conceive of it as a choice. It was very, very dead.

[Doc Dutch]

The point is that Europe experienced the fascist boot on its face, and saw it utterly defeated, except where it was kept artificially alive in Spain. Only the dimmest minority of nutters could actually conceive of it as a choice. It was very, very dead.

Yet totalitarian socialism existed for over 70 years and, in China and the DPRK, still exists. Maybe we should have nuked the Soviets when we had the chance, eh?

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Yet totalitarian socialism existed for over 70 years and, in China and the DPRK, still exists. Maybe we should have nuked the Soviets when we had the chance, eh?

Or germ warfare to wipe out the world population perhaps? Why did you fight Hitler if you felt like that?

[Doc Dutch]

Or germ warfare to wipe out the world population perhaps? Why did you fight Hitler if you felt like that?

That's my point. Why fight Hitler but let the Totalitarian Socialists continue? The US had a key global military advantage at the end of 1945 but didn't use it. Why?

While building my kayak trailer, I've been listening to Dan Carlin's "Hardcore History". One of them was the six hour "Destroyer of Worlds" (from Robert Oppenheimer's comment at Trinity). He talked about this very topic at length; how Truman didn't press the advantage, how the world has avoided WWIII over the years. He didn't like Stalin but thinks Kruschev is underrated as a world leader helping both the USSR and other nations navigate around the Nuclear Genie.

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/ha...yer-of-worlds/

[Iolo/Penderyn]

That's my point. Why fight Hitler but let the Totalitarian Socialists continue? The US had a key global military advantage at the end of 1945 but didn't use it. Why?

While building my kayak trailer, I've been listening to Dan Carlin's "Hardcore History". One of them was the six hour "Destroyer of Worlds" (from Robert Oppenheimer's comment at Trinity). He talked about this very topic at length; how Truman didn't press the advantage, how the world has avoided WWIII over the years. He didn't like Stalin but thinks Kruschev is underrated as a world leader helping both the USSR and other nations navigate around the Nuclear Genie.

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/ha...yer-of-worlds/

They are very different things, and we were allied with Stalin, as was the USA. State capitalism is very different from crisis capitalism, more rational, on the whole.

[Doc Dutch]

They are very different things, and we were allied with Stalin, as was the USA. State capitalism is very different from crisis capitalism, more rational, on the whole.

Allied after his pact with Hitler ended. Stalin was certainly no better than Hiter. How many millions of Russians died due to Stalin's efforts to modernize the Soviet Union? How many ended up in Siberia or in graves?

[Iolo/Penderyn]

Allied after his pact with Hitler ended. Stalin was certainly no better than Hiter. How many millions of Russians died due to Stalin's efforts to modernize the Soviet Union? How many ended up in Siberia or in graves?

Lots, but he was rational - that's how he survived mass capitalist attacks and set up state capitalism to replace socialism-in-on-country. HItler was just a racist nutter.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

For a good few years now, starting very much in the 'States but evident in most countries, because of new media and a few other things, groups of people have been able, more and more, to live in closed worlds in which they hear only one version of events, so that politics becomes increasingly the mere exchange of abuse. It makes me wonder whether democracy can possibly survive without serious debate. I think the problem is greatest in the USA, however, because the people who have become the followers of Trump seem, like earlier anti-democratic movements, simply uninterested in even appearing rational (which is why I keep calling them 'fascist' or 'nazi'), and they seem to have pushed aside the serious believers in capitalism and conservative values, who used to be able to make some sort of case for what they thought. It is all very well just shouting back - my Wife says I am unbelievably calm and placid when I can work off my negative feelings on barely-literate and pointlessly-aggressive trumpers - but I seriously begin to wonder if the human race can survive not only pandemics and world-overheating but this turn to savagery. It's not quite as bad over here, but America is the current centre of world capitalism, and where it goes others tend to follow. Does anyone see any way, other than Civil War, that we can get back to the compromise we used to manage, or is it going to be a matter or revolution or death? I'm thinking more of my own family than about an abstract Humanity, obviously, but aren't we all?

can you stop being such a dumbfuck?

[Saudade]

can you stop being such a dumbfuck?

Doubtful. He complains about a lack of rationality and a lack of discussion while blocking most conservatives and being as irrational as the far left typically is.

[Doc Dutch]

Lots, but he was rational - that's how he survived mass capitalist attacks and set up state capitalism to replace socialism-in-on-country. HItler was just a racist nutter.

Both were rational. Hitler did seem to get worse toward the end, but he was under a little stress.

Socialism in a world of limited resources doesn't work above the village/tribal level.

[Saudade]

Both were rational. Hitler did seem to get worse toward the end, but he was under a little stress.

Socialism in a world of limited resources doesn't work above the village/tribal level.

Technically, you could say that Stalin was more rational, but that's actually what made him worse. Stalin was able to maintain power for far longer than Hitler, which gave him the opportunity to kill far more people and to oppress his society for much longer.

Hitler was a temporary problem, since his instability helped lead to his downfall.

The world's worst tyrants are the ones that are as smart as they are evil, because that allows them to persist.

[Doc Dutch]

Technically, you could say that Stalin was more rational, but that's actually what made him worse. Stalin was able to maintain power for far longer than Hitler, which gave him the opportunity to kill far more people and to oppress his society for much longer.

Hitler was a temporary problem, since his instability helped lead to his downfall.

The world's worst tyrants are the ones that are as smart as they are evil, because that allows them to persist.

I'm not sure why you think Stalin was initially more rational. He joined with Hitler. Hitler was the big dog in the Axis powers. Stalin would have collapsed except for Lend-Lease.