Cypress (05-15-2020), Doc Dutch (05-15-2020), Geeko Sportivo (05-18-2020), ThatOwlWoman (05-15-2020), Tranquillus in Exile (05-19-2020)
For a good few years now, starting very much in the 'States but evident in most countries, because of new media and a few other things, groups of people have been able, more and more, to live in closed worlds in which they hear only one version of events, so that politics becomes increasingly the mere exchange of abuse. It makes me wonder whether democracy can possibly survive without serious debate. I think the problem is greatest in the USA, however, because the people who have become the followers of Trump seem, like earlier anti-democratic movements, simply uninterested in even appearing rational (which is why I keep calling them 'fascist' or 'nazi'), and they seem to have pushed aside the serious believers in capitalism and conservative values, who used to be able to make some sort of case for what they thought. It is all very well just shouting back - my Wife says I am unbelievably calm and placid when I can work off my negative feelings on barely-literate and pointlessly-aggressive trumpers - but I seriously begin to wonder if the human race can survive not only pandemics and world-overheating but this turn to savagery. It's not quite as bad over here, but America is the current centre of world capitalism, and where it goes others tend to follow. Does anyone see any way, other than Civil War, that we can get back to the compromise we used to manage, or is it going to be a matter or revolution or death? I'm thinking more of my own family than about an abstract Humanity, obviously, but aren't we all?
Cypress (05-15-2020), Doc Dutch (05-15-2020), Geeko Sportivo (05-18-2020), ThatOwlWoman (05-15-2020), Tranquillus in Exile (05-19-2020)
I believe that we are headed for a revolution at some point. Whether social class, or ideology difference become the catalyst remains unknown. I just think that we cannot continue on our current path indefinately.
Please leave your Trump 2024 signs in your yard. That way, my dog will know where to take a dump.
ThatOwlWoman (05-16-2020)
A pandemic and a depression together can surely handle the job of forcing a coming to the end of the road on current failed schemes, schemes that have been largely mismanaged for a generation, because not enough people could be found to give enough of a damn about the work of the society getting done well.
I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.
DARK AGES SUCK!
My wise friend once told me, "government is mobism".
Guno צְבִי (05-15-2020)
Thanks for posting an interesting observation even though I disagree with some parts. First, a quick review of the European Colonial Era up through all those exciting changes in Germany circa 1930s prove none of this crap began with the United States. At worst, we imported it from our Euro brethren.
Second, the US is obviously the 400 lb gorilla in the room so, even though the US may be on par with other nations in terms of assholishness, it's felt more around the world because of our national powers.
Lastlyl, yes, democracy can survive, but as the US found out in Iraq, a "US-version of Democracy" doesn't easily transfer to other cultures. In the end, some form of Democratic Socialization will exist along with a global coalition government, but a lot of stuff has to happen to get there. Mainly technological, but also social. IMHO, a lot of the social stuff will follow the technology. I like to use the Star Trek analogy because Gene Roddenberry was pretty far sighted when it came to things like tech and society. A lot of the tech in his 1960s show exists now: communicators=cellphones, hospital beds which can read vitals, doors that automatically open and close, talking computers, etc. What we don't have yet but are essential to a "Star Trek" form of Democratic Socialism is both a "replicator"= 3D printer and fusion power. I think most of us will live to see the latter two but won't live long enough to see the "Star Trek" form of global society come into existence.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Always a possibility, but look at the 50-100 year cycles of progress. Human beings have many problems, one of which is having social changes keep up with technological changes. In short, we're equivalent to chimps playing with loaded guns. Fortunately, it appears the human simians have dodged the WWIII nuclear armageddon trap.
The Fermi Paradox is based upon the high number of other intelligent civilizations there are in our galaxy. Fermi famously asked "But where is everybody?" since we should have found signs of them by that time. One answer is alluded to above: there is a point in every civilization where they create the power to destroy themselves and then do it. The result is anything from a dead world to pushing them back to a Stone Age society. In that respect, the human race may actually be ahead of the curve.
Human culture in a nutshell:
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
ThatOwlWoman (05-16-2020)
If we ever get end gerrymandering, voter suppression, the electoral college, deplorable-type Republicans will never win a national election, nor hold disproportionate influence over Congress and the courts.
In 21st century America we have been generally living under the Tyranny of the Minority
Guno צְבִי (05-15-2020), Iolo/Penderyn (05-16-2020), ThatOwlWoman (05-16-2020)
Is the glass half-empty or half-full. It's hard to see that the world is doing fine when oneself is actually mired up to their neck in shit after falling into an outhouse.
The best way to determine how we are doing is to take the long view, not just recent events or present circumstances.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
Disagreed almost 100%. Democrats are just as happy to gerrymander as Republicans. The EC protects the entire nation from tyranny of the majority on relatively small areas of the entire nation; in short, you can't get 38 states to agree to it without asserting an authoritarian Constitution-shredding government. There will always be a Left and Right, conservative and liberal, father and mother types of divides. That's human nature. It's a achieving a balance that's important, not trying to kill off the opposite side. People who can't agree to disagree in a civilized manner aren't civilized.
"Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"
I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.
DARK AGES SUCK!
I choose my own words like the Americans of olden times........before this dystopia arrived.
DARK AGES SUCK!
Doc Dutch (05-15-2020)
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