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Thread: How should we punish China?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bourbon View Post
    The Best Way to Punish China ... It to Send them Trump the entire Trump Family in January 2021
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bourbon View Post
    The Best Way to Punish China ... It to Send them Trump the entire Trump Family in January 2021
    They'll be too busy running the US of A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    because our trade balance of payments are so out of whack
    However NAFTA 2 (USMCA) the biggest new trade agreement of them all did not rely on improving balance of payments in terms of purchases
    Yep, the trade balance with China that Trump was going to fix went up 25 percent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Argument from randU fallacy.

    You are making up numbers. TDS.
    Nope, They are real fallacy boy. TBS is infecting you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Obama didn't have a great economy.
    He started from the typical Repub economic mess and fixed it making it vibrant and growing. All Trump did was take credit while doing nothing.

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    Earl (05-21-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Nope, They are real fallacy boy. TBS is infecting you.
    Define 'real'. You are making up numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    He started from the typical Repub economic mess and fixed it making it vibrant and growing. All Trump did was take credit while doing nothing.
    Obama didn't fix anything. He printed empty dollars and gave them away to his cronies, he nationalized companies and industries, he constantly made arbitrary changes to business conditions, etc. Trump has renegotiated NAFTA to be more favorable to U.S. interests, renegotiated trade with China to a more equitable level, reduced burdensome regulations and taxes to entice businesses to invest here again, which is actually happening.

    TDS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Obama didn't fix anything. He printed empty dollars and gave them away to his cronies.
    The President cannot print money. It is the Federal Reserve that creates money. Technically, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints what will become money, and the Federal Reserve officially turns it into money.

    The Federal Reserve created money to reverse the deflation caused by huge amounts of money being destroyed. Or that was what it used to do. Starting in September, the Fed had to create money to makeup for extreme shortages of cash on hand. We nearly lost all our corporations at once, and that was before Covid-19. Now the Fed is creating money trying to keep the states from collapsing. It is a real mess under trump.

    But back when Obama was President, the Fed created money to keep the value of money steady.

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    Earl (05-21-2020)

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    Death to America
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The President cannot print money.
    Correct. However, Obama lobbied Congress to print the money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It is the Federal Reserve that creates money.
    The Federal Reserve follows what Congress orders. They will print all the money that Congress asks for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Technically, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints what will become money, and the Federal Reserve officially turns it into money.
    WRONG. Money is not paper. It is bits. Only a small portion takes the form of paper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The Federal Reserve created money to reverse the deflation caused by huge amounts of money being destroyed. Or that was what it used to do.
    Nope. Never did. It has always 'printed' more money than what is destroyed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Starting in September, the Fed had to create money to makeup for extreme shortages of cash on hand.
    This is creation of money without a corresponding creation of wealth. That's inflation, dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    We nearly lost all our corporations at once, and that was before Covid-19.
    Inflation doesn't save corporations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Now the Fed is creating money trying to keep the states from collapsing.
    Inflation doesn't stop any State government from collapsing. It doesn't stop any business from collapsing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It is a real mess under trump.
    Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized. Yes it's a real mess. Blame the House. They are the only ones authorized to spend government money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    But back when Obama was President, the Fed created money to keep the value of money steady.
    Printing money without a corresponding increase in wealth is inflation, dude.

    If you dropped the stuff from helicopters, it becomes so worthless that people will abandon it (to a certain extent, that's already happening!). Printing money without a corresponding increase in wealth does not keep the value of money steady. It erodes it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Correct. However, Obama lobbied Congress to print the money.

    The Federal Reserve follows what Congress orders. They will print all the money that Congress asks for.

    WRONG. Money is not paper. It is bits. Only a small portion takes the form of paper.

    Nope. Never did. It has always 'printed' more money than what is destroyed.

    This is creation of money without a corresponding creation of wealth. That's inflation, dude.

    Inflation doesn't save corporations.

    Inflation doesn't stop any State government from collapsing. It doesn't stop any business from collapsing.

    Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized. Yes it's a real mess. Blame the House. They are the only ones authorized to spend government money.

    Printing money without a corresponding increase in wealth is inflation, dude.

    If you dropped the stuff from helicopters, it becomes so worthless that people will abandon it (to a certain extent, that's already happening!). Printing money without a corresponding increase in wealth does not keep the value of money steady. It erodes it.
    Handing out money claiming that they are loans when ones knows that there is zero chance that much/most of it will be paid back, when before they even go out everyone who is not willfully ignorant knows that there will be a very high default rate....is playing with dynamite.

    It is gross irresponsibility.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    He started from the typical Repub economic mess and fixed it making it vibrant and growing. All Trump did was take credit while doing nothing.
    If Trump did nothing, then this downturn is on Obama?
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Correct. However, Obama lobbied Congress to print the money. The Federal Reserve follows what Congress orders. They will print all the money that Congress asks for.
    Congress cannot print the money. Or technically speaking Congress could repeal all they have done before, and print the money, but they have not done that. The Federal Reserve alone creates money. You do not seem to understand how the government works.

    The Fed does not follow Congresses orders, and does not print money when Congress asks. Congress has never asked the Fed to print money. It just does not happen. The Fed is an autonomous body that decides policy based on monetary stability first and foremost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Nope. Never did. It has always 'printed' more money than what is destroyed. This is creation of money without a corresponding creation of wealth. That's inflation, dude.
    If that were true, we would not have deflation during a recession, like we have had. We have had below target inflation for 12 years now, slipping into deflation from time to time. That is DEFLATION, dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Inflation doesn't save corporations. Inflation doesn't stop any State government from collapsing. It doesn't stop any business from collapsing.
    Of course government can stop a business from collapsing. The question is whether it should stop them from collapsing. Providing companies with cash on hand starting in September saved almost all of corporate America from technical bankruptcy, but again there is a question: why was there no cash on hand in the American economy?

    trump had failed America very badly, even before the pandemic. The Fed was forced to step in and risk inflation to rescue our economy from trump's incompetence.
    Last edited by Walt; 05-21-2020 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Handing out money claiming that they are loans when ones knows that there is zero chance that much/most of it will be paid back, when before they even go out everyone who is not willfully ignorant knows that there will be a very high default rate....is playing with dynamite. It is gross irresponsibility.
    The Repo market loans are some of the most steady loans imaginable. Corporations are required to have very solid collateral. Those loans are going to be paid back in full, one way or another. The issue there is creation of money for other than fighting deflation.

    Historically, quantitative easing has bought very steady debt. More recently, some of the debt has been less steady, but even that is probably going to get repaid. The Fed has not gotten to the point where it is taking on debt with zero chance of being repaid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Correct. However, Obama lobbied Congress to print the money.

    The Federal Reserve follows what Congress orders. They will print all the money that Congress asks for.

    WRONG. Money is not paper. It is bits. Only a small portion takes the form of paper.

    Nope. Never did. It has always 'printed' more money than what is destroyed.

    This is creation of money without a corresponding creation of wealth. That's inflation, dude.

    Inflation doesn't save corporations.

    Inflation doesn't stop any State government from collapsing. It doesn't stop any business from collapsing.

    Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized. Yes it's a real mess. Blame the House. They are the only ones authorized to spend government money.

    Printing money without a corresponding increase in wealth is inflation, dude.

    If you dropped the stuff from helicopters, it becomes so worthless that people will abandon it (to a certain extent, that's already happening!). Printing money without a corresponding increase in wealth does not keep the value of money steady. It erodes it.
    Indeed.

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