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Thread: Private industry is not always the superior solution.

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    Default Private industry is not always the superior solution.

    Private industry is not always the superior solution:

    There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

    We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

    Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

    Respectfully, Supposn

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    Privatizing is almost never a benefit to society as corporatizing education, healthcare and prisons have clearly demonstrated. It is the constant refrain of nationalizing is bad and corporatizing is good that has driven the people astray. It is not true.

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    The commercialization of education, healthcare, and prisons have enriched the few at the misery of many and the pocketbooks of all.
    Russian trolls and their supporters go on Ignore, automatically: no second chance.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    Private industry is not always the superior solution:

    There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

    We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

    Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    Okay, let's look at some of these comparisons, since they exist in history in the United States:
    * Wifi is privately provided for. You can walk into any McDonald's or Starbucks and use AT&T Wifi for free.
    * Medical insurance is privately paid for. It was reasonably priced, until the government started meddling with it through things like ObamaCare. The ObamaCare insurance system is collapsing even now.
    * One of the railroads build across the U.S. was built entirely with private funds, and operated the same way. The U.S. government built two other lines around the same time. This single private line was able to deliver freight faster and and at about 1/2 the cost of the government railroads. Much of this freight was grain going overseas. The federal government passed price control laws to force all railroads (including the private one) to charge a specific fee, and shut off exports of the grain.
    * Passenger rail is impractical in the United States because people would rather drive or fly on private airlines. It is the aircraft that killed passenger service in the U.S. The only passenger service is now government owned, and it provides terrible service that is costly.
    * Here in Washington, we used to have private ferries that would regularly cross Puget Sound. The State also had some routes, but wanted to expand. The private ferries were in their way, since people tended to prefer them due to their better service and lower cost. Washington did the same thing the federal government did to the railroads. One by one the private ferries failed, to be replaced by State ferries.
    * Airlines are public transportation. They are privately owned.

    Now to the things that government is authorized to do; maintain bridges, roads, and the postal system:
    * Roads are not built by the government. They are improved by the government. Roads begin as paths, than cart tracks (dirt roads), then eventually become paved. These affect everyone, not just those that drive on them. Everyone can benefit, so most folks have agreed to give their State governments this authority. Related to this authority is maintaining the postal system, a function authorized to the federal government in its Constitution. In each case, materials to build those roads comes from private sources most of the time, and the roads themselves are built and marked by private companies that have contracted with the government.
    * Bridges are part of building the roads, and again are built by private contractors in most cases.
    * Public schools are a national joke, due to the interference from the NEA (an unconstitutional federal program). The illiteracy of graduates from these schools is well known. Private schools are doing a much better job.
    * Healthcare is largely private. It is the best healthcare system in the world.
    * Health insurance is still largely private, despite the attempts to unconstitutionally usurp the market by the federal government through ObamaCare.
    * Private scientists are creating new theories for engineers to develop new computers, create and improve chemical processes, find ways of cleaning up and preserving the environment (that actually work!), improve cars, aircraft, trucks, locomotives, ships, and other vehicles, improve materials manufacturing for everything from plastics, to metal, to even wood. Public scientists are too busy scamming for some useless study and pushing the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green.

    The United States is not a democracy and has never been one. There are currently no democracies anywhere on Earth. The United States is organized as a federated republic. I'll take capitalism any time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Okay, let's look at some of these comparisons, since they exist in history in the United States:
    * Wifi is privately provided for. You can walk into any McDonald's or Starbucks and use AT&T Wifi for free.
    * Medical insurance is privately paid for. It was reasonably priced, until the government started meddling with it through things like ObamaCare. The ObamaCare insurance system is collapsing even now.
    * One of the railroads build across the U.S. was built entirely with private funds, and operated the same way. The U.S. government built two other lines around the same time. This single private line was able to deliver freight faster and and at about 1/2 the cost of the government railroads. Much of this freight was grain going overseas. The federal government passed price control laws to force all railroads (including the private one) to charge a specific fee, and shut off exports of the grain.
    * Passenger rail is impractical in the United States because people would rather drive or fly on private airlines. It is the aircraft that killed passenger service in the U.S. The only passenger service is now government owned, and it provides terrible service that is costly.
    * Here in Washington, we used to have private ferries that would regularly cross Puget Sound. The State also had some routes, but wanted to expand. The private ferries were in their way, since people tended to prefer them due to their better service and lower cost. Washington did the same thing the federal government did to the railroads. One by one the private ferries failed, to be replaced by State ferries.
    * Airlines are public transportation. They are privately owned.

    Now to the things that government is authorized to do; maintain bridges, roads, and the postal system:
    * Roads are not built by the government. They are improved by the government. Roads begin as paths, than cart tracks (dirt roads), then eventually become paved. These affect everyone, not just those that drive on them. Everyone can benefit, so most folks have agreed to give their State governments this authority. Related to this authority is maintaining the postal system, a function authorized to the federal government in its Constitution. In each case, materials to build those roads comes from private sources most of the time, and the roads themselves are built and marked by private companies that have contracted with the government.
    * Bridges are part of building the roads, and again are built by private contractors in most cases.
    * Public schools are a national joke, due to the interference from the NEA (an unconstitutional federal program). The illiteracy of graduates from these schools is well known. Private schools are doing a much better job.
    * Healthcare is largely private. It is the best healthcare system in the world.
    * Health insurance is still largely private, despite the attempts to unconstitutionally usurp the market by the federal government through ObamaCare.
    * Private scientists are creating new theories for engineers to develop new computers, create and improve chemical processes, find ways of cleaning up and preserving the environment (that actually work!), improve cars, aircraft, trucks, locomotives, ships, and other vehicles, improve materials manufacturing for everything from plastics, to metal, to even wood. Public scientists are too busy scamming for some useless study and pushing the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green.

    The United States is not a democracy and has never been one. There are currently no democracies anywhere on Earth. The United States is organized as a federated republic. I'll take capitalism any time.
    with banks being bailed out your so called capitalism doesn't even exist. fool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    with banks being bailed out your so called capitalism doesn't even exist. fool.
    Yes it does. There are a hell of a lot more businesses than the banks, fool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Yes it does. There are a hell of a lot more businesses than the banks, fool.
    you're an idiot. the economy is all connected. when you're bailing things out , it just becomes an elaborate totalitarian charade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    Privatizing is almost never a benefit to society as corporatizing education, healthcare and prisons have clearly demonstrated. It is the constant refrain of nationalizing is bad and corporatizing is good that has driven the people astray. It is not true.
    Gonzomoron, you're a fcking moron. The free market does everyone of those things far better than the government. Those industries you named, education, medical, and prison, are mostly controlled by the government and the private companies have the sht regulated out of them, so they are not good examples of the free market. And, yet the government does a far worse job in those sectors than private companies. We spent a million dollars on your education and family welfare, but you're still a fcking moron, thanks to public schools.
    Ape lives matter. Stop putting them in zoos. Boycott businesses that don't hire apes.

    Then answered all the Jews, and said, Jesus' blood be on us, and on our children. So be it.
    Jews want to turn America into an atheistic, amoral, socialist farmyard.

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    Gonzomin, by what mechanism does the government do all these things better than the private sector?
    Ape lives matter. Stop putting them in zoos. Boycott businesses that don't hire apes.

    Then answered all the Jews, and said, Jesus' blood be on us, and on our children. So be it.
    Jews want to turn America into an atheistic, amoral, socialist farmyard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    Gonzomoron, you're a fcking moron. The free market does everyone of those things far better than the government. Those industries you named, education, medical, and prison, are mostly controlled by the government and the private companies have the sht regulated out of them, so they are not good examples of the free market. And, yet the government does a far worse job in those sectors than private companies. We spent a million dollars on your education and family welfare, but you're still a fcking moron, thanks to public schools.
    theoretically maybe, but in reality, large corporations and rich people have achieved state capture and use their power to turn society into a killing machine of degradation and corruption that benefits the few. now that this is becoming obvious, they've gone totalitarian, based on overblown hysteria over a manmade virus.
    Last edited by Hermes Thoth; 04-15-2020 at 03:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Okay, let's look at some of these comparisons, since they exist in history in the United States:
    * Wifi is privately provided for. You can walk into any McDonald's or Starbucks and use AT&T Wifi for free.
    * Medical insurance is privately paid for. It was reasonably priced, until the government started meddling with it through things like ObamaCare. The ObamaCare insurance system is collapsing even now.
    * One of the railroads build across the U.S. was built entirely with private funds, and operated the same way. The U.S. government built two other lines around the same time. This single private line was able to deliver freight faster and and at about 1/2 the cost of the government railroads. Much of this freight was grain going overseas. The federal government passed price control laws to force all railroads (including the private one) to charge a specific fee, and shut off exports of the grain.
    * Passenger rail is impractical in the United States because people would rather drive or fly on private airlines. It is the aircraft that killed passenger service in the U.S. The only passenger service is now government owned, and it provides terrible service that is costly.
    * Here in Washington, we used to have private ferries that would regularly cross Puget Sound. The State also had some routes, but wanted to expand. The private ferries were in their way, since people tended to prefer them due to their better service and lower cost. Washington did the same thing the federal government did to the railroads. One by one the private ferries failed, to be replaced by State ferries.
    * Airlines are public transportation. They are privately owned.

    Now to the things that government is authorized to do; maintain bridges, roads, and the postal system:
    * Roads are not built by the government. They are improved by the government. Roads begin as paths, than cart tracks (dirt roads), then eventually become paved. These affect everyone, not just those that drive on them. Everyone can benefit, so most folks have agreed to give their State governments this authority. Related to this authority is maintaining the postal system, a function authorized to the federal government in its Constitution. In each case, materials to build those roads comes from private sources most of the time, and the roads themselves are built and marked by private companies that have contracted with the government.
    * Bridges are part of building the roads, and again are built by private contractors in most cases.
    * Public schools are a national joke, due to the interference from the NEA (an unconstitutional federal program). The illiteracy of graduates from these schools is well known. Private schools are doing a much better job.
    * Healthcare is largely private. It is the best healthcare system in the world.
    * Health insurance is still largely private, despite the attempts to unconstitutionally usurp the market by the federal government through ObamaCare.
    * Private scientists are creating new theories for engineers to develop new computers, create and improve chemical processes, find ways of cleaning up and preserving the environment (that actually work!), improve cars, aircraft, trucks, locomotives, ships, and other vehicles, improve materials manufacturing for everything from plastics, to metal, to even wood. Public scientists are too busy scamming for some useless study and pushing the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green.

    The United States is not a democracy and has never been one. There are currently no democracies anywhere on Earth. The United States is organized as a federated republic. I'll take capitalism any time.
    Always love reading these conservative understandings of the public vs private, "night" really lays on above

    Can you name one bridge that was built by private interests? We all know that the contracts to build any road or bridge are given to private companies, but without the Gov't those bridges and roads would not exist. The "beginning as paths" is beautiful

    Private schools, not all private schools, are doing a good job, but keep in mind private schools select their students, something public schools can not do, private schools should do a good job

    Certainly the most expensive health care in the world, and it is the best, if you can afford it

    What percentage of scientists are working totally funded by private interests, and those that are, are their goals to employ Science to improve man's life or to find new ways to insure further profits for those that employ them

    And, the old semantics again, the US is a Democrat Republic, we elect our representatives democratically to serve our interest in a republic framework of Gov't

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
    Private industry is not always the superior solution:

    There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

    We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

    Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

    Respectfully, Supposn
    It, probably capitalism in general, isn't equipped to address a national crisis in an expedient manner, just as in the World Wars we have fought, relying on the markets to get what is needed now to combat the threat has shown to be failing

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Always love reading these conservative understandings of the public vs private, "night" really lays on above
    "Night" is a neocon idiot. The government is behind practically every bridge built. Bridges and roads are practically all in the realm of government. Public employees (planning) are at the top and the bottom (moving dirt). Sometimes private contractors are used, but it's not a big factor.

    Private schools, not all private schools, are doing a good job, but keep in mind private schools select their students, something public schools can not do, private schools should do a good job
    Let's just exclude the elitist private schools, which are a small minority of private schools. Private schools usually have a fraction of the money of public schools. They're not selective. In fact, one of the two big reasons parents send their kids to private schools is because they're doing poorly in the public schools. (The other big reason is to keep their children out of the government's antichrist schools.)

    Certainly the most expensive health care in the world, and it is the best, if you can afford it
    The high cost of American medical care makes it preposterous to call it the best in the world. But, it's expensive because the government regulates the sht out of it and pays for most using it. Canada has a better medical system than does the US.

    What percentage of scientists are working totally funded by private interests, and those that are, are their goals to employ Science to improve man's life or to find new ways to insure further profits for those that employ them
    Profit is the motivator that makes the world go around.

    Most "scientists" work at government universities. But, like public schools, when the government is throwing so much money at something, it makes no financial sense of anyone to put much effort into doing it privately. No one sends their kids to private school to save money. That doesn't mean the private sector couldn't do it better. If I'm a company that wants some specific science done, I'd just offer a grant to a university to do it.
    Ape lives matter. Stop putting them in zoos. Boycott businesses that don't hire apes.

    Then answered all the Jews, and said, Jesus' blood be on us, and on our children. So be it.
    Jews want to turn America into an atheistic, amoral, socialist farmyard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    you're an idiot. the economy is all connected. when you're bailing things out , it just becomes an elaborate totalitarian charade.
    Compositional error fallacy. Banks are not the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    theoretically maybe, but in reality, large corporations and rich people have achieved state capture and use their power to turn society into a killing machine of degradation and corruption that benefits the few. now that this is becoming obvious, they've gone totalitarian, based on overblown hysteria over a manmade virus.
    Corporations are not being totalitarian. It is governors passing these bans, unconstitutionally.

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