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Thread: CDC guidelines issued march 24 say basically "Call every death covid".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    "Likely".

    You think the CDC guideline requires proof that a decedent actually has COVID-19, DEMOCRAT?

    COVID-19 Alert No. 2

    March 24, 2020

    New ICD code introduced for COVID-19 deaths

    This email is to alert you that a newly-introduced ICD code has been implemented to accurately capture mortality data for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) on death certificates. Please read carefully and forward this email to the state statistical staff in your office who are involved in the preparation of mortality data, as well as others who may receive questions when the data are released.

    What is the new code?

    The new ICD code for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) is U07.1, and below is how it will appear in formal tabular list format. U07.1 COVID-19 Excludes: Coronavirus infection, unspecified site (B34.2) Severe acute respiratory syndrome [SARS], unspecified (U04.9) The WHO has provided a second code, U07.2, for clinical or epidemiological diagnosis of COVID-19 where a laboratory confirmation is inconclusive or not available. Because laboratory test results are not typically reported on death certificates in the U.S., NCHS is not planning to implement U07.2 for mortality statistics.

    When will it be implemented?

    Immediately.

    Will COVID-19 be the underlying cause?

    The underlying cause depends upon what and where conditions are reported on the death certificate. However, the rules for coding and selection of the underlying cause of death are expected to result in COVID-19 being the underlying cause more often than not.

    What happens if certifiers report terms other than the suggested terms?

    If a death certificate reports coronavirus without identifying a specific strain or explicitly specifying that it is not COVID-19, NCHS will ask the states to follow up to verify whether or not the coronavirus was COVID-19. As long as the phrase used indicates the 2019 coronavirus strain, NCHS expects to assign the new code. However, it is preferable and more straightforward for certifiers to use the standard terminology (COVID-19).

    What happens if the terms reported on the death certificate indicate uncertainty?

    If the death certificate reports terms such as “probable COVID-19” or “likely COVID-19,” these terms would be assigned the new ICD code. It Is not likely that NCHS will follow up on these cases.

    If “pending COVID-19 testing” is reported on the death certificate, this would be considered a pending record. In this scenario, NCHS would expect to receive an updated record, since the code will likely result in R99. In this case, NCHS will ask the states to follow up to verify if test results confirmed that the decedent had COVID-19.

    Do I need to make any changes at the jurisdictional level to accommodate the new ICD code?

    Not necessarily, but you will want to confirm that your systems and programs do not behave as if U07.1 is an unknown code.

    Should “COVID-19” be reported on the death certificate only with a confirmed test?

    COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II. (See attached Guidance for Certifying COVID-19 Deaths)


    Steven Schwartz, PhD Director – Division of Vital Statistics National Center for Health Statistics 3311 Toledo Rd | Hyattsville, MD 20782


    https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2020-03-18-new-covid-19-icd-10-cm-code-coming-earlier

    Loser.

    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DEMOCRAT domer76 View Post
    Just because you’re paranoid does not mean we’re NOT out to fuck you over.
    Your confession is superfluous, DEMOCRAT.

    Loser.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcslobber View Post
    Why is the CDC a media and/or liberal institution to these ignorant morons?
    Nancy Messonnier, M.D., is the Director of the Center for the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Prove it, DEMOCRAT. Of course I'll understand if you can't, naturally.

    Loser.

    You made the claim, bitch.

    If a person has diabetes and contracts COVID and dies, the diabetes didn’t cause their death in that same timeframe, idiot.

    The same with any number of other ailments. Unless their death was EXACTLY on the same day, it was the COVID that lef to their death.

    Fucking idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEMOCRAT domer76 View Post
    You made the claim, bitch.


    Quote Originally Posted by DEMOCRAT domer76 View Post
    Bullshit.
    Prove it, DEMOCRAT. Naturally I'll understand if you can't, of course.

    Loser.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    The CDC is padding the numbers to prolong the panic so the DEMOCRATS can persuade all 50 governors to mandate mail & electronic voting, Ms. Stretch.
    Yup - all voting has to be done in-person. Mail voting and online voting is just begging for fraud.
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

    It's only fair that the press is biased towards liberals since the public is biased towards conservatives.

    When the guns are gone, EVERYTHING IS GONE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Text Drivers are Killers View Post
    Yup - all voting has to be done in-person. Mail voting and online voting is just begging for fraud.
    DEMOCRATS are succeeding in their fraud campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    The better news? 98% of infected persons recover!
    We don't know that yet but i suspect it's more like 99.5% and if we only deal with people under say 60 it's 99.999%
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

    It's only fair that the press is biased towards liberals since the public is biased towards conservatives.

    When the guns are gone, EVERYTHING IS GONE.

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    Stretch (04-07-2020)

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    Your exhibit doesn't support your premise, dimwit. It makes them look reasonable and accurate as is practicable to capture relevant data sets.

    I am superior. Eat my shit and get smarter doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    DEMOCRATS are succeeding in their fraud campaign.
    Ditto to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcslobber View Post
    Ditto to you.
    Think so?

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    Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy

    Many of our so-called health experts are acting less like good doctors and more like bad politicians.

    By Angelo Codevilla • April 2, 2020

    The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told, hundreds of thousands of Americans could face death if the country reopened too soon.”

    These numbers, many millions of infections, hundreds of thousands of deaths, were ones that “health officials” had been spreading through a sensation-hungry media for some time. Together with a poll question that framed the choice just so, they had already helped produce another set of numbers: “Voters overwhelmingly preferred to keep containment measures in place over sending people back to work prematurely.”

    This, the Times crowed victoriously, had stampeded President Trump to abandon his goal of restoring normal life by Easter.

    Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

    The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.

    All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.


    Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

    How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).

    To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters. Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

    The most important fact about COVID-19, its true mortality rate, is the number who die of the virus divided by the number infected by it. No algorithms. Simple arithmetic.

    In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.


    Learning the true figures about precisely what danger the virus poses to whom must begin by taking into account one thing we know for sure about COVID-19: that many, if not most, of those infected by this unusually contagious virus show few or no symptoms. This suggests eventual near-universal contagion.

    But we don’t know how many of these asymptomatic people there are. Hence, meaningful epidemiological testing must include a random representative sample of the population, regardless of whether they are presumed to be infected or not. The numbers resulting from monitoring what happens to the health of individuals in this sample over a few weeks would tell exactly what percentage of people in each category and subcategory suffer what consequences from whatever contact with the virus they happen to have.

    As it happens, a sizable chunk of such data is about to come into existence. The virus is rampant among the 5,000 or so personnel aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt. Everyone aboard is being tested. By the time that is done, as the ship sits off Guam, and it returns to the United States, we will have a good idea about the rate of infection and some factual notion of what happens to those infected—at least among the sailors’ demographic group.

    The question of lethality is not resolved by mere counting of individuals who test positive and die. We have some data showing that COVID-19-positive people who suffer from certain diseases are likelier to succumb than others who suffer from other diseases or who are otherwise healthy.


    Sorting out causes of death is properly a medical judgment. The doctors who are scaring the hell out of the country in general might better spend their time using their medical skills to sort out the virus’s specific consequences—and recommending what currently available drugs may keep the sick from dying.

    President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

    They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.


    Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

    Backed by the media, Fauci and company have contended that actions by anybody, ordinary citizens, elected officials, or physicians that do not follow proper bureaucratic procedures are illegitimate. Who the hell do they think they are? We belong to ourselves. Not to them.


    Decisions affecting each and all of us rightly belong to ourselves directly and indirectly through elected representatives. Congress and the legislatures should be making decisions on the basis of open debate and recorded roll call votes.

    Surely, President Trump’s low point came when he supported bypassing roll call votes in the passage of a $2.2 trillion bill as part of his and other executive officials’ decisions to shut down the country. Making decisions on the basis of meaningless curves and bureaucratic authority rather than through open debate about hard facts followed by roll call votes is not just undemocratic. It’s stupid.


    https://www.amgreatness.com/2020/04/...and-democracy/
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Darth Omar (04-07-2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch;3581448
    [B
    The most important fact about COVID-19, its true mortality rate, is the number who die of the virus divided by the number infected by it. No algorithms. Simple arithmetic.
    But nobody knows how many have been infected by covid. We can't even guess since most people infected don't go to a doctor and don't even know themselves what they had. Number of americans infected so far could be 100 million - or it could be 1 million.
    Reckless drivers are a bigger threat to you than all other criminals put together!

    It's only fair that the press is biased towards liberals since the public is biased towards conservatives.

    When the guns are gone, EVERYTHING IS GONE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Doctors, Doctored Numbers, and Democracy

    Many of our so-called health experts are acting less like good doctors and more like bad politicians.

    By Angelo Codevilla • April 2, 2020

    The New York Times on Tuesday reported: “The numbers the health officials showed President Trump were overwhelming. With the peak of the coronavirus pandemic still weeks away, he was told, hundreds of thousands of Americans could face death if the country reopened too soon.”

    These numbers, many millions of infections, hundreds of thousands of deaths, were ones that “health officials” had been spreading through a sensation-hungry media for some time. Together with a poll question that framed the choice just so, they had already helped produce another set of numbers: “Voters overwhelmingly preferred to keep containment measures in place over sending people back to work prematurely.”

    This, the Times crowed victoriously, had stampeded President Trump to abandon his goal of restoring normal life by Easter.

    Trouble is, though, these numbers come from just some doctors—they reflect neither reality nor broad medical opinion. They are synthetic products that hide the (often ignorant) assumptions that they reflect, substitute for reason, foster panic, and ruin the country.

    The following shows how “soft” and hence divorced from reality these numbers are, what it would take to produce “hard” numbers—i.e. ones reflective of reality—and the manner consistent with self-government in which such matters should be debated and decided.

    All admit that the numbers that are scaring the sense out of the country are mathematical projections. All projections are based on assumptions about the ever-changing numbers of “confirmed cases” of COVID-19, as well as of deaths resulting therefrom. But few—and here it seems we must include many “health officials”—consider that the latter numbers are themselves “soft” and tell us next to nothing about how much, how little, or what kind of dangers the virus poses to us.


    Certainly, they give no guidance about what restrictions any of us should apply to ourselves, never mind what the government should do to the country.

    How’s that? Because the number of “confirmed cases”—meaning cases that have come to the attention of the medical profession—tells us nothing about the number of people infected. Nor does that number tell us what happens to the gamut of those infected. Nor is the number of deaths “hard,” because it does not distinguish between those who die of the virus and those who die merely with it (that is, they might have died even without it).

    To make intelligent decisions about countermeasures, we would need have hard data about all these matters. Yet, for two months, doctors such as Anthony Fauci have messed up millions of lives and commandeered trillions of dollars while scaring the hell out of people and watching curves based on projections based on meaningless numbers. Watching the several curves resulting from the testing that is now ongoing and that is projected to continue as the country suffers will provide only more guesses, that will feed more models and more disputes.

    The most important fact about COVID-19, its true mortality rate, is the number who die of the virus divided by the number infected by it. No algorithms. Simple arithmetic.

    In short, Fauci, et al., are showing themselves to be typical of our bureaucracy: over-credentialed, entrusted with too much power, and dangerously incompetent.


    Learning the true figures about precisely what danger the virus poses to whom must begin by taking into account one thing we know for sure about COVID-19: that many, if not most, of those infected by this unusually contagious virus show few or no symptoms. This suggests eventual near-universal contagion.

    But we don’t know how many of these asymptomatic people there are. Hence, meaningful epidemiological testing must include a random representative sample of the population, regardless of whether they are presumed to be infected or not. The numbers resulting from monitoring what happens to the health of individuals in this sample over a few weeks would tell exactly what percentage of people in each category and subcategory suffer what consequences from whatever contact with the virus they happen to have.

    As it happens, a sizable chunk of such data is about to come into existence. The virus is rampant among the 5,000 or so personnel aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt. Everyone aboard is being tested. By the time that is done, as the ship sits off Guam, and it returns to the United States, we will have a good idea about the rate of infection and some factual notion of what happens to those infected—at least among the sailors’ demographic group.

    The question of lethality is not resolved by mere counting of individuals who test positive and die. We have some data showing that COVID-19-positive people who suffer from certain diseases are likelier to succumb than others who suffer from other diseases or who are otherwise healthy.


    Sorting out causes of death is properly a medical judgment. The doctors who are scaring the hell out of the country in general might better spend their time using their medical skills to sort out the virus’s specific consequences—and recommending what currently available drugs may keep the sick from dying.

    President Trump, as well as the governors of some states, have been stampeded out of their common sense into shutting down the country until further notice. The bureaucratic-media complex has done this on the supposed basis of medical authority. But the doctors have not been speaking as doctors on the basis of knowledge of the human body while offering cures or even palliatives. No. Their judgments are based on speculation about the meaning of mathematical models.

    They are not acting like good doctors but rather like bad politicians.


    Fauci showed how thoroughly he and his cohorts have subordinated common sense to bureaucratic authority. Having strenuously campaigned to deny the usefulness of hydroxychloroquine, having been confronted by the fact that physicians on the front lines of the battle against the virus are using it themselves, and having been asked whether he—were he to come down with illness from the virus—would use it, he weakly conceded that he would but only as part of an approved study. He cared less about describing what the drug can do and can not do than about affirming his agency’s and the FDA’s prerogatives.

    Backed by the media, Fauci and company have contended that actions by anybody, ordinary citizens, elected officials, or physicians that do not follow proper bureaucratic procedures are illegitimate. Who the hell do they think they are? We belong to ourselves. Not to them.


    Decisions affecting each and all of us rightly belong to ourselves directly and indirectly through elected representatives. Congress and the legislatures should be making decisions on the basis of open debate and recorded roll call votes.

    Surely, President Trump’s low point came when he supported bypassing roll call votes in the passage of a $2.2 trillion bill as part of his and other executive officials’ decisions to shut down the country. Making decisions on the basis of meaningless curves and bureaucratic authority rather than through open debate about hard facts followed by roll call votes is not just undemocratic. It’s stupid.


    https://www.amgreatness.com/2020/04/...and-democracy/
    "American Greatness," now there is a new one, now I wonder what a blogger who calls himself "American Greatness" is going to say about any topic that involves Trump, beautiful

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    Quote Originally Posted by Text Drivers are Killers View Post
    But nobody knows how many have been infected by covid. We can't even guess since most people infected don't go to a doctor and don't even know themselves what they had. Number of americans infected so far could be 100 million - or it could be 1 million.
    Second time, so what is your point? You telling us that Trump, who talks about hundreds of thousands of possible victims is being fooled by what you imply are erroneous numbers?

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