COVID related deaths

[Darth Omar]

I noticed some outlets are starting to use the term ‘COVID related’ in reporting on death numbers.

It’s a solid clue the victim had at least one comorbid condition which actually doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. Coronavirus is a kind of flu that [yes, it is. Don’t let the News Fakers tell you it’s not. The term ‘flu’ applies to a set of *viral* respiratory/upper respiratory symptoms, fever, malaise etc] causes 10,000’s of thousands of deaths every year—very nearly exclusively, in susceptible populations.

Why do they report the seasonal death tally as a range? Because the number depends on how deaths are recorded. For ex: Elderly patient A who is on the verge of renal failure gets the flu and dies. How is the death recorded?

I’ll give you a hint: it won’t be recorded as death by flu. The point is it would be very easy to inflate the seasonal flu numbers to their very highest end simply by categorizing any person who dies with it as a seasonal flu statistic. 50,000 or higher is probably not out of reach.

I’d wager COVID deaths are being over reported with respect to seasonal flu deaths.

[canceled.2021.2]

I noticed some outlets are starting to use the term ‘COVID related’ in reporting on death numbers.

It’s a solid clue the victim had at least one comorbid condition which actually doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. Coronavirus is a kind of flu that [yes, it is. Don’t let the News Fakers tell you it’s not. The term ‘flu’ applies to a set of *viral* respiratory/upper respiratory symptoms, fever, malaise etc] causes 10,000’s of thousands of deaths every year—very nearly exclusively, in susceptible populations.

Why do they report the seasonal death tally as a range? Because the number depends on how deaths are recorded. For ex: Elderly patient A who is on the verge of renal failure gets the flu and dies. How is the death recorded?

I’ll give you a hint: it won’t be recorded as death by flu. The point is it would be very easy to inflate the seasonal flu numbers to their very highest end simply by categorizing any person who dies with it as a seasonal flu statistic. 50,000 or higher is probably not out of reach.

I’d wager COVID deaths are being over reported with respect to seasonal flu deaths.

Agreed many of these people were probably going to die anyway this year

These COVID19 numbers are a freaking blip statistically

[Micawber]

2227 dead. We are soon to exceed 911 numbers. Does this feel like an emergency yet, Trumptards?

[Micawber]

I’d wager COVID deaths are being over reported with respect to seasonal flu deaths.

Your money is no good here, Trumpling. Someone with intense bias who has nothing but a bet? Nice thread.

When 911 attack happened, can we not count the cancer deaths afterwards? Did you complain that we did? I bet not.

Take your exotic action to a mafia street bookie.

[Earl]

A National Emergency was declared by the president.

Companies are producing test kits. Immigration from China has been stopped. The best medical minds in the country are on this Chinese virus.

[Legion]

I noticed some outlets are starting to use the term ‘COVID related’ in reporting on death numbers.

It’s a solid clue the victim had at least one comorbid condition which actually doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. Coronavirus is a kind of flu that [yes, it is. Don’t let the News Fakers tell you it’s not. The term ‘flu’ applies to a set of *viral* respiratory/upper respiratory symptoms, fever, malaise etc] causes 10,000’s of thousands of deaths every year—very nearly exclusively, in susceptible populations.

Why do they report the seasonal death tally as a range? Because the number depends on how deaths are recorded. For ex: Elderly patient A who is on the verge of renal failure gets the flu and dies. How is the death recorded?

I’ll give you a hint: it won’t be recorded as death by flu. The point is it would be very easy to inflate the seasonal flu numbers to their very highest end simply by categorizing any person who dies with it as a seasonal flu statistic. 50,000 or higher is probably not out of reach.

I’d wager COVID deaths are being over reported with respect to seasonal flu deaths.

The DEMOCRATS and their media allies are students of the art of propaganda.

They are more desperate than ever because their candidate has been revealed as a senile old lecher.

[ThatOwlWoman]

We seldom see such desperation to justify an incorrect position. One thing you can say for #COVID-45 -- the bumbling incompetent fool still manages to inspire incredible devotion. But then cult leaders are like that.

Dismissal of political bias out of the way, let's see what the CDC has to say about how influenza deaths are determined.
~~~
What methods are used to estimate the number of influenza-associated deaths in the U.S.?

The methods to estimate the annual number of influenza-associated deaths have been described in detail elsewhere (1-2). The model uses a ratio of deaths-to-hospitalizations in order to estimate the total influenza-associated deaths from the estimated number of influenza-associated hospitalizations.

We first look at how many in-hospital deaths were observed in FluSurv-NET. The in-hospital deaths are adjusted for under-detection of influenza using methods similar to those described above for hospitalizations using data on the frequency and sensitivity of influenza testing. Second, because not all deaths related to influenza occur in the hospital, we use death certificate data to estimate how likely deaths are to occur outside the hospital. We look at death certificates that have pneumonia or influenza causes (P&I), other respiratory and circulatory causes (R&C), or other non-respiratory, non-circulatory causes of death, because deaths related to influenza may not have influenza listed as a cause of death. We use information on the causes of death from FluSurv-NET to determine the mixture of P&I, R&C, and other coded deaths to include in our investigation of death certificate data. Finally, once we estimate the proportion of influenza-associated deaths that occurred outside of the hospital, we can estimate the deaths-to-hospitalization ratio.

Data needed to estimate influenza-associated deaths may lag for up to two years after the season ends. When this is not yet available for the season being estimated, we adjust based on values observed in prior seasons (e.g., the 2010-2011 season through the 2016-2017 season) and update the estimates when more current data become available.

Why doesn’t CDC base its seasonal flu mortality estimates only on death certificates that specifically list influenza?

Seasonal influenza may lead to death from other causes, such as pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has been recognized for many years that influenza is underreported on death certificates. There may be several reasons for underreporting, including that patients aren’t always tested for seasonal influenza virus infection, particularly older adults who are at greatest risk of seasonal influenza complications and death. Even if a patient is tested for influenza, influenza virus infection may not be identified because the influenza virus is only detectable for a limited number of days after infection and many people don’t seek medical care in this interval. Additionally, some deaths – particularly among those 65 years and older – are associated with secondary complications of influenza (including bacterial pneumonias). For these and other reasons, modeling strategies are commonly used to estimate flu-associated deaths. Only counting deaths where influenza was recorded on a death certificate would be a gross underestimation of influenza’s true impact.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-new...hing-in-common

~~~

As to the incorrect claim that COVID19 and influenza are the same, from both a scientific and public health point of view, that is untrue.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-de...-and-influenza

[Jack]

I don't think 'Death' is the Main Problem. Pointing at the 'Death Numbers' is a distraction. The Main Problem is how many people are sick with this AT THE SAME TIME.
This thing is so contagious that huge parts of the Community are falling ill at the same time and bringing the Economy to a halt.

Darth. What is your normal job ... and what are you doing NOW?

I noticed some outlets are starting to use the term ‘COVID related’ in reporting on death numbers.

It’s a solid clue the victim had at least one comorbid condition which actually doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. Coronavirus is a kind of flu that [yes, it is. Don’t let the News Fakers tell you it’s not. The term ‘flu’ applies to a set of *viral* respiratory/upper respiratory symptoms, fever, malaise etc] causes 10,000’s of thousands of deaths every year—very nearly exclusively, in susceptible populations.

Why do they report the seasonal death tally as a range? Because the number depends on how deaths are recorded. For ex: Elderly patient A who is on the verge of renal failure gets the flu and dies. How is the death recorded?

I’ll give you a hint: it won’t be recorded as death by flu. The point is it would be very easy to inflate the seasonal flu numbers to their very highest end simply by categorizing any person who dies with it as a seasonal flu statistic. 50,000 or higher is probably not out of reach.

I’d wager COVID deaths are being over reported with respect to seasonal flu deaths.

[Doc Dutch]

I noticed some outlets are starting to use the term ‘COVID related’ in reporting on death numbers.

It’s a solid clue the victim had at least one comorbid condition which actually doesn’t tell us anything we don’t already know. Coronavirus is a kind of flu that [yes, it is. Don’t let the News Fakers tell you it’s not. The term ‘flu’ applies to a set of *viral* respiratory/upper respiratory symptoms, fever, malaise etc] causes 10,000’s of thousands of deaths every year—very nearly exclusively, in susceptible populations.

Why do they report the seasonal death tally as a range? Because the number depends on how deaths are recorded. For ex: Elderly patient A who is on the verge of renal failure gets the flu and dies. How is the death recorded?

I’ll give you a hint: it won’t be recorded as death by flu. The point is it would be very easy to inflate the seasonal flu numbers to their very highest end simply by categorizing any person who dies with it as a seasonal flu statistic. 50,000 or higher is probably not out of reach.

I’d wager COVID deaths are being over reported with respect to seasonal flu deaths.

Most "flu" deaths aren't due to the flu but pneumonia. I suspect the same with COVID-19. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827586/

Watching the rising daily body count reminds me of the Vietnam years. Does it really matter if not all the deaths reported on a particular day in Vietnam were not combat-related but due to a traffic or weapons accident? A helicopter crash on takeoff?

The people most vulnerable to COVID-19 are those who are elderly and/or already have health issues. If COVID-19 further weakens them and they end up dying of their previous ailment, that would be "COVID-related" because they wouldn't have died if they hadn't contracted COVID-19.

It's mincing words and playing politics with dead Americans to quibble about "COVID-related". Obviously Trump is worried about the election and that is the only reason to quibble about this.

[Legion]

I don't think 'Death' is the Main Problem.

Of course you don't, since the numbers are nowhere near the doomsday predictions that Neal Ferguson projected and the DEMOCRAT website COVIDActNow.com spread to every state, county, and municipal government in America in order to start a shutdown stampede.

[Legion]

It's mincing words and playing politics with dead Americans to quibble about "COVID-related".

Irony abounds.

Oh, look - you got a Fowl fluff. Did her facial feathers tickle your turgid todger?

[Micawber]

The logic eats itself. The biggest indicators of fatality here is some other underlying condition and advanced age, both.

So their argument is that no deaths count unless it strikes down a 20 something immortal to try and tamp down on the deaths and recategorize them.

What won't these adoring morons do or say to rally the other orange pawns?

Hey Trumptards, if you get corona and die when you have it, it counts as a dead. The dover test here is that simple.

We can debate Trump's personal culpability, but this angle is just intellectual grifting.

[ExpressLane]

If you get COVID and then get a pneumonia and sepsis and die it should be a COVID death.

[Doc Dutch]

If you get COVID and then get a pneumonia and sepsis and die it should be a COVID death.

Agreed and that's why the CDC counts them that way. Trump supporters are simply playing politics with the body count due to the election.

[Darth Omar]

Most "flu" deaths aren't due to the flu but pneumonia. I suspect the same with COVID-19. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827586/

Watching the rising daily body count reminds me of the Vietnam years. Does it really matter if not all the deaths reported on a particular day in Vietnam were not combat-related but due to a traffic or weapons accident? A helicopter crash on takeoff?

The people most vulnerable to COVID-19 are those who are elderly and/or already have health issues. If COVID-19 further weakens them and they end up dying of their previous ailment, that would be "COVID-related" because they wouldn't have died if they hadn't contracted COVID-19.

It's mincing words and playing politics with dead Americans to quibble about "COVID-related". Obviously Trump is worried about the election and that is the only reason to quibble about this.

Anyone interested in accuracy is going to ‘quibble’ over the terms. And I think this is an excellent time for some accuracy.

Death by flu can be death by bacterial pneumonia secondary to the flu. Non-trauma death statistics very often aren’t cut and dry. And that’s especially true in populations with high incidences of comorbid conditions. Such as you find in nursing homes and etc.

My point is the seasonal flu numbers can be under reported just as easily as COVID related deaths can be over reported. The current seasonal number stands at 23,000 deaths for seasonal flu—that can be made higher with some tweaking of the statistics: all victims with comorbid conditions get thrown into the death by flu category—even if it was doubtful they’d survive another six weeks with their failing major organ system—or whatever.

The point stands.