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Thread: Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Yes or not. They have the capacity to choose. Atheism influences how people think and do things, yes? Socialism? Capitalism? A philosophy book? Plato's "The Republic"?
    My nuns told me that they conquered by the sword
    ---because it was their duty do what is explicitly written.

    To do what is explicitly written, is to carry a defiant banner of zealots,
    but the most pro-active of the lot speak explicitly what its means & ends are
    ---where you must take it and can't leave it, and it's an offer you can't refuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The development of Christian theology did not stop and freeze in time in the first century AD

    Just like Enlightenment thought did not stop developing when Voltaire died.

    Christian theology developed two millennia after the Gospels. Christians to this day are reflecting on the meaning of the scriptures.

    The Church fathers of the Patristic in late Antiquity wrote extensively on the meaning and nature of the scripture, and it is clear that they thought slavery was against God's intent, and by the standards of antiquity Christian theology was more sympathetic to slaves than any other tradition in the ancient world. By the 18th century" Christian theology had evolved to where progressive Christians worldwide were actively working to end slavery. I do not think there is any question that Christians, acting on their understanding of their theology, did more than any of the Enlightenment thinkers to actually work to end slavery.
    & sadly for much of that time most ppl couldn't read, didn't have the materials/books available & when they did were often forbid to read it on their own..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    If that's not enough, Jesus also said that the old laws will not be changed. This means that the rules of the Old Testament, such as homosexuality being a sin, are still to be followed.
    persistent atheist misrepresentation ignoring the difference between Mosaic law and Levitical law.......the "rules of the Old Testament" are not a single body of laws.......there was a moral code, a civil code and code regulating sacrifice.......Jesus specifically said to preserve the moral code but also said he came to fulfill the code regulating sacrifice and that it was no longer necessary........as to the civil code, that had been replaced by the Roman laws long before Jesus was incarnated.......as he said, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.....
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    the only mention of slavery in the NT that I am aware of is the book of Philemon, where Paul wrote....
    5 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother.

    I pity those who try to say Christianity condones slavery.......they speak from their imagination rather than truth......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Yes, Jesus was a product of his time. I'm not saying he was a horrible person for believing in slavery, I'm saying he was normal for his time.
    However, that's beside the point. The point is that Jesus was fine with slavery and in no way fought against it. So he was not the guy who started the move away from slavery.
    I've already asked you to please quote any words of Jesus that support slavery, (and come to that queer-bashing or male supremacy). Please do that thing if we are to continue this conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Exactly Wilberforce & Wesley, not high church/s...

    This conflict (slavery & serfdom), @ least IMHO has existed from long ago..

    A drama or passion play of economics, power/politics & morality..
    Agreed, though it's worth mentioning that a lot of very high Churchmen in the UK were pretty solid socialists. There are tensions and contradictions everywhere. Even the current Pope sometimes shows an interest in Christian behaviour!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhaktajan View Post
    My nuns told me that they conquered by the sword
    ---because it was their duty do what is explicitly written.

    To do what is explicitly written, is to carry a defiant banner of zealots,
    but the most pro-active of the lot speak explicitly what its means & ends are
    ---where you must take it and can't leave it, and it's an offer you can't refuse.
    I have no idea what you are trying to say. As for sword, the Bible, once again, is contradictory. Jesus says buy a sword in Luke 22:36-38, which contradicts "turn the other cheek", the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 26:52 "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword".
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Agreed, though it's worth mentioning that a lot of very high Churchmen in the UK were pretty solid socialists. There are tensions and contradictions everywhere. Even the current Pope sometimes shows an interest in Christian behaviour!
    Probably because Jesus was a socialist.

    The RWNJs and/or Satanists will say "bu..bu...but Socialism didn't exist 2000 years ago you demmycunt! Fuck you and burn in Hell, cunt!!!!", but the fact remains that Jesus put spiritual "wealth" ahead of material wealth. Jesus recognized that material wealth is temporary but one's soul is eternal.

    Matthew 19:21
    Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Probably because Jesus was a socialist.

    The RWNJs and/or Satanists will say "bu..bu...but Socialism didn't exist 2000 years ago you demmycunt! Fuck you and burn in Hell, cunt!!!!", but the fact remains that Jesus put spiritual "wealth" ahead of material wealth. Jesus recognized that material wealth is temporary but one's soul is eternal.

    Matthew 19:21
    Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
    And if you read Acts, you find that the early Church was doing its best with 'to each according to his/her need, from each according to his/her ability'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    And if you read Acts, you find that the early Church was doing its best with 'to each according to his/her need, from each according to his/her ability'.
    Which is quite different from those like Paula White who believe in "Prosperity Theology"....and, worth only $5,000,000, is relatively poor compared to other pastors.

    https://www.celebritynetworth.com/ri...ite-net-worth/
    Paula White Net Worth: $5 Million

    https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/chr...n-america.aspx
    Kenneth Copeland: Net Worth $760 Million

    Pat Robertson: Net Worth $100 Million

    Benny Hinn: Net Worth $42 Million

    Joel Osteen: Net Worth $40 Million

    Creflo Dollar: Net Worth $27 Million
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    I've already asked you to please quote any words of Jesus that support slavery, (and come to that queer-bashing or male supremacy). Please do that thing if we are to continue this conversation.
    And I already said Jesus didn't mention slavery or homosexuality. However, he did say that the old laws are still to be followed, and the old laws included slavery and homophobia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    I pity those who try to say Christianity condones slavery.......they speak from their imagination rather than truth......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Yes or not. They have the capacity to choose. Atheism influences how people think and do things, yes? Socialism? Capitalism? A philosophy book? Plato's "The Republic"?
    Yes. So it's fair game to say any of those things are negative if they contain bad philosophy and have a history of influencing people in a bad way, like Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    And I already said Jesus didn't mention slavery or homosexuality. However, he did say that the old laws are still to be followed, and the old laws included slavery and homophobia.
    I'm no expert on Judaism, and I think we might argue about what Jewish law enforced slavery. I think the key point, though, is that Jesus tended to go - as with the Sabbath and such - for what the old laws were trying to say. While I take your point about this, it is a bit like my own commitment to UK law: I am not in a campaign to overthrow law, but if I had any hand in it its interpretation and application would be very, very different. Just illustration, I hasten to add. I am hardly in the appropriate league for serious comparison!

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Yes. So it's fair game to say any of those things are negative if they contain bad philosophy and have a history of influencing people in a bad way, like Christianity.
    Nice dodge. Perhaps you should consider the maxim "Throwing the baby out with the bath water".
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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