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Thread: Sanders condemns Russian help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    If this was the only example of Bernie discussing the merits of the Soviet Union and other regimes of the socialist spectrum, then I would agree with you. It's not.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...ember-n1139811
    What exactly is wrong with pointing out the good things these countries did? If someone says the Nazis were right for popularizing anti-smoking advertisements, it doesn't make that person a Nazi.
    Bernie recently clarified that he condemns Castro's Authoritarianism policies, including locking people up for criticizing his policies. He just liked some of the social policies.
    Again, to compare that to Trump, he doesn't do that. Instead, he'll talk about how great Putin is for being a "tough guy." The implication there is that Putin locking up reporters makes him an alpha-male or some stupid shit like that. The difference is that Bernie likes some of what these people did despite their Authoritarianism, whereas Trump likes these guys because of their Authoritarianism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I'm sure Putin will immediately stop.
    At least he condemned Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    That is not true, Democratic Socialism implies a political term where as Socialism an economic one, world of difference
    Democratic Socialism aims to implement the economic system of socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    What exactly is wrong with pointing out the good things these countries did? If someone says the Nazis were right for popularizing anti-smoking advertisements, it doesn't make that person a Nazi.
    Bernie recently clarified that he condemns Castro's Authoritarianism policies, including locking people up for criticizing his policies. He just liked some of the social policies.
    Again, to compare that to Trump, he doesn't do that. Instead, he'll talk about how great Putin is for being a "tough guy." The implication there is that Putin locking up reporters makes him an alpha-male or some stupid shit like that. The difference is that Bernie likes some of what these people did despite their Authoritarianism, whereas Trump likes these guys because of their Authoritarianism.
    Bernie usually praises the economic policies in addition to some of the social policies. Said economic policies are often authoritarian in their own right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Bernie usually praises the economic policies in addition to some of the social policies. Said economic policies are often authoritarian in their own right.
    That's debatable. I don't think a program to increase literacy or provide everyone with healthcare is Authoritarian. I'd hope most people would agree with that, even if they don't think we should have such programs.
    When Bernie starts saying he likes Castro because he was a tough guy, I'll be worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    That's debatable. I don't think a program to increase literacy or provide everyone with healthcare is Authoritarian. I'd hope most people would agree with that, even if they don't think we should have such programs.
    When Bernie starts saying he likes Castro because he was a tough guy, I'll be worried.
    I'm referring to when the state starts to seize private industry. Bernie might not specifically mention that he likes that sort of thing, but you'll notice that this usually happens before sweeping changes in socialist regimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    I'm referring to when the state starts to seize private industry. Bernie might not specifically mention that he likes that sort of thing, but you'll notice that this usually happens before sweeping changes in socialist regimes.
    Yeah, but it doesn't happen until after the communist party openly says they want to end private property. Right now there is no reason to believe Bernie wants to do that.
    And even if he did want to, congress would never let it happen, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Yeah, but it doesn't happen until after the communist party openly says they want to end private property. Right now there is no reason to believe Bernie wants to do that.
    And even if he did want to, congress would never let it happen, anyway.
    Venezuela isn't communist, but their government seized several private industries. This kind of action isn't limited to communists.

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    Americans, for a number of reasons, mean by 'socialism' normal intervention by the capitalist State to keep its working mugs alive and (comparively) contented, i.e. normal capitalism. Socialism is not about its manoeuvres but about removing it.

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    Hello Phantasmal,

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Bernie could change the flavor for the Boomers by saying a Democratic Socialist. He allows others to continue to label him just a socialist, that sounds really scary to old capitalists.
    So true...
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    The point about Russian interference is to create division -so they support both Trumpf AND a decent person.
    Last edited by Iolo/Penderyn; 02-25-2020 at 08:19 AM.

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    Hello Woko Haram,

    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    On the latter comparison, I would agree that there are differences that are worth discussing.

    On the former comparison, the differences are relatively minor.
    Then you should have no problem using the terms Democratic Socialism and Socialism interchangeably. And you would be wrong to do so.

    I see a huge difference. In Socialism, the government controls the means of production. In Democratic Socialism the people and their representatives vote on how to handle each segment of the economy, whether it should be run by government or by private industry, or a balanced combination of the two.

    That's a pretty fundamental difference.

    Personally, I think the things that people need should be guaranteed by the government, and the things people want should be left to the free market.

    A government which ensures that her people have security, food, housing, health care, transportation, energy, law enforcement and incarceration, basic retirement, and information, is a country which is bound to flourish.

    A government which guarantees none of those things to the people, leaves it all up to the haphazard vagaries of the for-profit free market that serves those with the most capital, is bound to have extreme wealth inequality, homeless vagrants, rampant disease, pollution, danger, cruelty, no strategic planning for the near or distant future, no studies of new social threats from industry, and social unrest.

    That's just basic logic.
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    Hello Cypress,

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The rightwing only care about the word socialism if they can weaponize it against liberals.

    Conservatives do not actually genuinely give a rats ass about the humans who actually lived under totalitarian systems, whether it was the USSR, or whether it is Saudi Arabia.

    Unlike conservatives, I have a body of posts here which are a genuine, articulate, and compelling. denunciation of the moral and ethical dimensions of totalitarian communism. And some of us have both the honesty and cognition to draw distinctions between totalitarian communism, democratic socialism, and liberal welfare states.
    Yeah, but are there enough of us to overcome the stigma of the S-word...
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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I'm sure Putin will immediately stop.
    One thing is for certain. Putin won't stop as long as we have a president who denies the fact that Putin is even interfering in our elections.
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    Hello Woko Haram,

    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    I'm referring to when the state starts to seize private industry. Bernie might not specifically mention that he likes that sort of thing, but you'll notice that this usually happens before sweeping changes in socialist regimes.
    Bernie has not advocated for seizing private industry. If you wish to honestly oppose what he stands for that's one thing. But if you're going to make things up then that's just baloney.
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