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Thread: Donít tell the evangelicals...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    What would change if we did lol?
    The money would stop flowing to Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    The money would stop flowing to Israel.
    I'm a supporter of Israel!But they need to put their Faith in YHWH!Not the USA,Trump or certainly not Right Wing Trump supporters,Evangelicals!
    Melchizedek

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Not if the Democrats are successful. They are going after the evangelicals for 2020.

    Teaching Democrats to Speak Evangelical
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-re...ak-evangelical

    Democrats (Wistfully) Take Aim at a Republican Stronghold: Evangelicals
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/u...-election.html

    Democrats' challenge: Courting evangelicals in the Trump era
    https://www.clickorlando.com/news/po...the-trump-era/
    Great stuff, thanks.

    And it makes sense, especially what Pagitt is doing.

    And great point, Bernie is dead meat because he has not talked about religion at all. I don't see how a candidate can write off the religious and expect to win.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Jack,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    The Jesus Freaks want a Cross on every Mountain Top, a Bible in every School, and the Ten Commandments in every Courthouse.
    Democrats aren't interested in turning America into a Theocracy.
    Yeah, they don't all want that. Don't fall for shallow stereotypes.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Jack,



    Yeah, they don't all want that. Don't fall for shallow stereotypes.
    I'm not worried about the 'average christian', I'm worried about the Crusaders, the ones that want to stack the Courts and institute 'Christian Sharia'.

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    Hello Jack,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    The Jesus Freaks want to live under 'God's Law'. (I'm sure they'll make it up as they go)
    There are people like that, but that doesn't mean all evangelicals are like that.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Jack,



    There are people like that, but that doesn't mean all evangelicals are like that.
    Keep telling yourself that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Not if the Democrats are successful. They are going after the evangelicals for 2020.

    Teaching Democrats to Speak Evangelical
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-re...ak-evangelical

    Democrats (Wistfully) Take Aim at a Republican Stronghold: Evangelicals
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/u...-election.html

    Democrats' challenge: Courting evangelicals in the Trump era
    https://www.clickorlando.com/news/po...the-trump-era/
    Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. Albert Einstein

    America's future is bright, not white

    And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment



    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Keep telling yourself that.
    He's right. I grew up in a Fundie family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    He's right. I grew up in a Fundie family.
    And I know a lot of fundies who spend time on the cancer ward visiting the sick; handing out food packs to local schools kids on Fridays so they’ll have something to eat over the weekend.

    Etc.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    The Tanakh (jewish bible) "old' testament' is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

    This is why Jews do not believe there was any redemptive power at all in the christian's man gods' death. Such a belief is unbiblical; it has no basis in the sacred text and no justification in Jewish theology. This doctrine can be seen as an invention for the sake of post-event rationalization, in other words, to give meaning and purpose to the crucifixion after the fact.

    Some Christians may choose to interpret other verses in the Bible to indicate the opposite, that one CAN die for the sins of another. If that were the case, this would mean that Gd changed His mind, or that He did not mean what He said in Deuteronomy 24:16: 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.'

    But Gd does not change either His mind or His nature, as we read in Malachi 3:6,

    For I am the Eternal, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    In a newer technique, some Christians are now quoting rabbinic writings to make it seem as if the rabbis accepted this concept of vicarious atonement. The Bible states, in no uncertain terms, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.'

    Christian Proof-Texting

    The claim of Paul and the New Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?

    Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennium have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see!

    In a certain way, Fundamentalist missionaries shoot the arrow in the target and then draw the bull’s eye around the arrow. In this fashion, they claim to always be correct, making the evidence conform to their foregone conclusions.

    Let’s begin with a verse taken out of context (a verse out of context is a pretext):

    “And he arose and took the child and his mother by night and departed for Egypt; and remained there until the death of Herod, that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, “Out of Egypt did I call my son.”............................................. ...................................

    The claim of Paul and the New Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?

    Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennium have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see!

    In a certain way, Fundamentalist missionaries shoot the arrow in the target and then draw the bull’s eye around the arrow. In this fashion, they claim to always be correct, making the evidence conform to their foregone conclusions.

    Let’s begin with a verse taken out of context (a verse out of context is a pretext):

    “And he arose and took the child and his mother by night and departed for Egypt; and remained there until the death of Herod, that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, “Out of Egypt did I call my son.”

    Matthew 2:14
    This passage is found in the beginning of the gospel of Matthew where we find Joseph, the husband of Mary, fleeing from Herod with his wife and infant son. The writer wants us to identify this event with a verse that seems to refer to a person called “son” – that is, to prove Jesus was called then “son of God.” Matthew also attempts to demonstrate that the passage identifies one detail of the life of Jesus – namely his exile to Egypt and eventual ascendancy from there.

    Here is the passage in Tanach Matthew was trying to “latch on to” for his “proof:”

    Among the major problems with Matthew’s attribution of this verse to Jesus is that in context the entire chapter in Hoshea is clearly speaking about the Jewish people as “My son.” This is a very common metaphor in Tanach, where the collective body of the Jewish people is called “God’s son,” or “first born.”

    • Note: “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”

    Hoshea 11:1
    However, despite this subterfuge by the author of Matthew, Fundamentalist Christians have no problem rationalizing this for it follows Paul’s teachings of using deception, as we mentioned earlier.

    Here is another example:

    “Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being translated means, God with us.”

    Matthew 1:22-23
    What is significant here is not only is this verse being taken out of context, it is also being mistranslated (more examples of this to follow). This verse is the basis for Christian theology concerning the miraculous “Virgin Birth” of Jesus. The manufacture of this myth fits a 1st Century mindset where it was very common amongst pagans to venerate their leaders as being “born of God.” It freed them from the “taint” of being conceived by “sinful” human flesh. It is also one of the main verses that attempt to prove the idea of a corporeal god and the divinity of Jesus from the translation of the name “Immanuel,” as “God with us.”

    Problems with Matthew’s manipulation of this verse:
    • How can the birth of a virgin be a sign for anyone? Only God knows the inner secrets of a person, thus, one’s virginity is ultimately a hidden matter

    • The word “Immanuel” does not mean "God has become a man and walks among us" nor does it mean "God has become flesh and is with us as a man". Such assertions contradict the word of God. According to God, he isn't a man, as we find in (Numbers 23:19) “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

    • Matthew in cross-referencing to Tanach identifies Isaiah 7:14 as the source of this prophesy. What is the context of Isaiah’s message? Who is he addressing when he asserts “The Lord will give a sign: “behold the “Virgin” shall conceive?”

    To answer these questions, let’s take a look at the passages in question:


    “Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, an Almah shall conceive, and bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

    Isaiah 7:14
    Christian translators changed the word Almah המלע, which actually means “young woman” to read “a virgin.” Any student of Tanach knows that when a prophet wishes to identify the word for virgin in Hebrew he will write “Betulah.” Accordingly, elsewhere in Tanach, when the word Almah appears, Christian translators translate it as “young woman.” In fact, the word has a male form, Elam, םלע, and it is perfectly clear from other uses in Tanach that it is impossible to render this word as virgin.

    read more


    https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge...proof-texting/
    Last edited by guno; 02-21-2020 at 03:23 PM.
    Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. Albert Einstein

    America's future is bright, not white

    And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment



    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    He's right. I grew up in a Fundie family.
    ... and?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    ... and?
    And not all are like that. I know the types you're talking about. Those LGBT hating evangelicals and those who fleece people for money. Or combination of both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    And not all are like that. I know the types you're talking about. Those LGBT hating evangelicals and those who fleece people for money. Or combination of both.
    I'm a little more concerned about those that like to stick their nose in other people's business.
    You know, the ones that like to spout 'Family Values'.

    Senator Vitter of Louisiana:

    "Vitter admitted to being a client for so-called “D.C. Madame” Deborah Jeane Palfrey in 2007, The Week reports. Facing prison time, Palfrey committed suicide while Vitter skipped along to win re-election.
    In February that year, Vitter was also linked to a brothel in Louisiana, Fox News reported.
    Vitter’s presentation of himself as a family values Republican is shaken by statements from Jeanette Maier, who Fox News quoted as saying Vitter was a Canal Street brothel client."
    https://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/dia...-sex-marriage/

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    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    And not all are like that. I know the types you're talking about. Those LGBT hating evangelicals and those who fleece people for money. Or combination of both.
    Evangelicals are easy to stereotype but as a group they aren’t as monolithic as some suppose.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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