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Thread: This is how you do a protest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    What gives the state more power is removing due process from the equation. That's what red flag laws do.

    Psychological background checks would help in keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people. Red flag laws would just enable individuals to engage in score settling and the state to engage in selective seizures of weapons.
    WHICH IS EXACTLY HOW THEY WOULD PLAY OUT...
    TRUMP WILL TAKE FORTY STATES...UNLESS THE SAME IDIOTS WHO BROUGHT US THE 2020 DUNCE-O-CRAT IOWA CLUSTERFUCK CONTINUE THEIR SEDITIOUS ACTIVITIES...THEN HE WILL WIN EVEN MORE ..UNLESS THE RED CHINESE AND DNC COLLUDE, USE A PANDEMIC, AND THEN THE DEMOCRATS VIOLATE ARTICLE II OF THE CONSTITUTION, TO FACILLITATE MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL, UNVETTED, MAIL IN BALLOTS IN THE DARK OF NIGHT..


    De Oppresso Liber

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    And yet we still lead the first world in gun-related homicides and mass shootings. I do think there are other factors, such as Globalism causing a kind of national Nihilism, but considering how many insane people own guns, I think that's a factor too.
    We might lead the world in mass shootings, but we don't lead the world in gun-related homicides. We're not even in the top 10 for gun homicides. 60% of our gun deaths are suicides, not homicides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Define "much ammo." What's the difference between a 5 bullet magazine, 10 bullet magazine, or a magazine beyond that amount? Is there some magic number of bullets that causes people to go on killing sprees?

    One of the problems with magazine limits is that the limit is arbitrary. There is no logical argument for suggesting one number is preferable to another. It's just a number that legislators pull out of the air.

    A lot of things can be easily used to kill people, but as I pointed out earlier, most mass shootings involve handguns. Yet, rifles are the guns most targeted by bans.
    When a gun can hold less ammo, the shooter is forced to reload more often, thus giving more people time to escape. And if you think those few seconds don't matter, look at the Dayton shooting. Police stopped the shooter in thirty seconds, which is very commendable, but in those thirty seconds, he killed fourteen people. A few seconds to stop and reload really do matter.

    You're right, the number is pretty arbitrary, but I'd rather have a low but arbitrary limit than no limit. Should a gun be able to hold six bullets or ten bullets? I don't know, but either number is better than fifty bullets.

    Which is why I think we shouldn't stop at rifles. Much of the focus, when it comes to gun control, is on guns when we should also be talking more about gun accessories and the screening process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    When a gun can hold less ammo, the shooter is forced to reload more often, thus giving more people time to escape. And if you think those few seconds don't matter, look at the Dayton shooting. Police stopped the shooter in thirty seconds, which is very commendable, but in those thirty seconds, he killed fourteen people. A few seconds to stop and reload really do matter.

    You're right, the number is pretty arbitrary, but I'd rather have a low but arbitrary limit than no limit. Should a gun be able to hold six bullets or ten bullets? I don't know, but either number is better than fifty bullets.

    Which is why I think we shouldn't stop at rifles. Much of the focus, when it comes to gun control, is on guns when we should also be talking more about gun accessories and the screening process.
    And if that's the rationale, then you're going to have gun control advocates continue to push for smaller and smaller magazines. If 10 becomes the standard, then 5 will be next. If 5 becomes the standard, then maybe they'll push for 1 after that.

    Virginia shows us that lobbyists are willing to expand the definition of assault weapons to all semiauto weapons, so magazines can easily be subjected to the same expansion of control.

    This is why gun rights advocates don't typically give any ground to magazine limits. We've already seen certain states create a slippery slope situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    We might lead the world in mass shootings, but we don't lead the world in gun-related homicides. We're not even in the top 10 for gun homicides. 60% of our gun deaths are suicides, not homicides.
    That's why I said "first world." Yeah, we don't have as many gun-related homicides as many third world countries, but we're part of the first world, we should have much higher standards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    That's why I said "first world." Yeah, we don't have as many gun-related homicides as many third world countries, but we're part of the first world, we should have much higher standards.
    We have higher violence in general than most of the First World. Banning guns wouldn't change that. You have to address the root causes of violence to reduce it. Mental health issues are one of those root causes.

    Access to guns can't really be considered a root cause, because the vast majority of gun owners don't commit acts of violence. All you can really apply is psychological background checks to keep guns away from unstable people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    What gives the state more power is removing due process from the equation. That's what red flag laws do.

    Psychological background checks would help in keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people. Red flag laws would just enable individuals to engage in score settling and the state to engage in selective seizures of weapons.
    But we could have red flag laws without due process. It sounds like right now the way red flag laws are being carried out isn't that good, but that can be changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    And if that's the rationale, then you're going to have gun control advocates continue to push for smaller and smaller magazines. If 10 becomes the standard, then 5 will be next. If 5 becomes the standard, then maybe they'll push for 1 after that.

    Virginia shows us that lobbyists are willing to expand the definition of assault weapons to all semiauto weapons, so magazines can easily be subjected to the same expansion of control.

    This is why gun rights advocates don't typically give any ground to magazine limits. We've already seen certain states create a slippery slope situation.
    The "slippery slope" usually doesn't actually happen, though. Most European countries have stricter gun control and it hasn't led to a ban on guns, or even just guns holding more than one bullet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    But we could have red flag laws without due process. It sounds like right now the way red flag laws are being carried out isn't that good, but that can be changed.
    I'm guessing you meant to type "red flag laws with due process." What I'm wondering is why we need them at all. As I said, every state had procedures in place for seizing weapons before red flag laws. I don't see any reason why we need them. It just is a way that activists have tried to shortcut due process.

    It's no different from how we've given the surveillance state too much power. There was no reason to pass the Patriot Act. Intelligence agencies had plenty of power before 9/11. There was no need to give them more power, but we did, because we were sold this idea that we'd be safer if we just gave government more power.

    Unfortunately, this is the sort of thinking that both sides use to grab power rather than providing any actual improvements in safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    The "slippery slope" usually doesn't actually happen, though. Most European countries have stricter gun control and it hasn't led to a ban on guns, or even just guns holding more than one bullet.
    Most European nations don't typically have all-out bans, but in a practical sense, they function almost as such. In a lot of countries, both in Europe and outside of it, you have to explain to law enforcement why you need a gun. At their discretion, you either are allowed to have a gun or not. In effect, these systems favor the elite, cronies, and those who bribe officials.

    It's definitely not a good model to follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    But we also have accessories that make it extremely easy to kill large groups of people.
    and yet, approximately -0.000001% of gun owners kill large groups of people even where these accessories are "easy" to obtain
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Most European nations don't typically have all-out bans, but in a practical sense, they function almost as such. In a lot of countries, both in Europe and outside of it, you have to explain to law enforcement why you need a gun. At their discretion, you either are allowed to have a gun or not. In effect, these systems favor the elite, cronies, and those who bribe officials.

    It's definitely not a good model to follow.
    I'm sure it's easier for people with money to get guns in those countries, since no matter what the service is, a rich person will have the option of bribery. But there are plenty of working-class Europeans with guns too, especially in Switzerland. So this system of giving guns to people who can make a coherent argument might not be a bad one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    I'm sure it's easier for people with money to get guns in those countries, since no matter what the service is, a rich person will have the option of bribery. But there are plenty of working-class Europeans with guns too, especially in Switzerland. So this system of giving guns to people who can make a coherent argument might not be a bad one.
    Switzerland is kind of a joke regarding guns. You can get a gun easier than in many other nations there, but your ammo has to be locked away. You're basically just allowed to have a paperweight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    When a gun can hold less ammo, the shooter is forced to reload more often, thus giving more people time to escape. And if you think those few seconds don't matter, look at the Dayton shooting. Police stopped the shooter in thirty seconds, which is very commendable, but in those thirty seconds, he killed fourteen people. A few seconds to stop and reload really do matter.

    You're right, the number is pretty arbitrary, but I'd rather have a low but arbitrary limit than no limit. Should a gun be able to hold six bullets or ten bullets? I don't know, but either number is better than fifty bullets.

    Which is why I think we shouldn't stop at rifles. Much of the focus, when it comes to gun control, is on guns when we should also be talking more about gun accessories and the screening process.
    And we're back to that just being your dumbass opinion, that you have been and still are unable to post a single FACT that supports your stupidity.

    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    I'm guessing you meant to type "red flag laws with due process." What I'm wondering is why we need them at all. As I said, every state had procedures in place for seizing weapons before red flag laws. I don't see any reason why we need them. It just is a way that activists have tried to shortcut due process.

    It's no different from how we've given the surveillance state too much power. There was no reason to pass the Patriot Act. Intelligence agencies had plenty of power before 9/11. There was no need to give them more power, but we did, because we were sold this idea that we'd be safer if we just gave government more power.

    Unfortunately, this is the sort of thinking that both sides use to grab power rather than providing any actual improvements in safety.
    I wonder if Stone would agree with "red flag laws" that pertain to motor vehicles!!

    Just call in on people who you feel are a danger, while driving, and have all their vehicles confiscated, until they go to Court and PROVE that their not a danger.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.


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