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Thread: Why Is America So Depressed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Opioid overdose deaths are twice as high among whites as they are among blacks. Whites are able to skew the arrest numbers towards blacks, but we are not able to change the death numbers. But it is not all whites. Educated whites, urban whites, whites in the upper class, etc. are having almost no problem.

    Opioids are hitting rural, uneducated whites, especially men, very hard. And who is most correlated with trump voters? Rural, uneducated whites, especially men.

    In fact, that was the best correlation with trump voters around, until someone looked at "worsening health outcomes". Literally, trump voters are the most sick among us.

    It is not just opioid abuse. There rates of diabetes is rising off the charts. They are committing suicide at incredible numbers. Everyone else is seeing dropping homicide rates, but not them.

    They are dying from even simple things. They are wearing their seatbelts at lower numbers. They are taking up smoking at greater numbers. 40 year old trump voters are starting smoking, which is unheard of in any other population of that age. It is almost like they want to die.

    Whatever this is, it has killed far more Americans than AIDS, and all in a much shorter time. This is so bad that it is lowering our overall life expectancy. It is an epic health disaster, that no one noticed. And somehow trump voting is correlated with it.
    Then it should be clear that the Democrats should try to acquire some of these voters if they want to win in 2020. The same group is why they lost the Rust Belt.

    Democrats have long said that they want to represent the most vulnerable, and what you described above does sound pretty vulnerable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Drug abuse can be tied to many things. In the case of opioids, I would argue most of it is tied to overprescribing painkillers and such.

    Too much of our system is based on doping people up rather than addressing root causes. We see something similar with the welfare state and gun policies.
    I think opioid abuse is more effect than cause. Uneducated whites, especially rural and/or male, are having some severe problems. Maybe it is from increased automation, deindustrialization, dissolving family units, increased efficiency leaving them behind, etc. I have even seen better video games making them less interested in living their lives given as a cause.

    There are parts of this population that are not seeing opioid abuse that are still seeing population collapse from other causes.

    And they do NOT want help. They often respond very violently to any attempt to help them break out of their problems. The NRA (a lobbying group for them) is actually trying to get laws passed banning doctors from helping them.

    trump is another expression of this self destruction, and their want not to be helped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Then it should be clear that the Democrats should try to acquire some of these voters if they want to win in 2020. The same group is why they lost the Rust Belt.

    Democrats have long said that they want to represent the most vulnerable, and what you described above does sound pretty vulnerable.
    If correlations hold, which is a huge assumption, but a common assumption made for arguments sake... If correlations hold, a 1% decrease in diabetes would have led to Clinton winning easily.

    So maybe the solution is to help these self destructive people get out of their self destructive behavior. But that is difficult, so lets say a less nice solution. These people are dying much faster than they can be replaced... If we just outlive them, we can move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I think opioid abuse is more effect than cause. Uneducated whites, especially rural and/or male, are having some severe problems. Maybe it is from increased automation, deindustrialization, dissolving family units, increased efficiency leaving them behind, etc. I have even seen better video games making them less interested in living their lives given as a cause.

    There are parts of this population that are not seeing opioid abuse that are still seeing population collapse from other causes.

    And they do NOT want help. They often respond very violently to any attempt to help them break out of their problems. The NRA (a lobbying group for them) is actually trying to get laws passed banning doctors from helping them.

    trump is another expression of this self destruction, and their want not to be helped.
    Uh, you're going to need to cite this NRA claim.

    As far as trying to help these people goes, they seemed pretty responsive to immigration control and holding China accountable.

    I'm sure there are addicted people that are hard to help (as with any group of addicts), but what holds back Democrats from getting their votes is the focus on identity politics. When Democrats were more focused on working class issues, they won a lot of rural and burned out industrial areas. They've left a lot of that behind for "woke" issues that only tend to appeal to certain minorities and urbanites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    That's assuming that it becomes proven that Trump engaged in a quid pro quo. It hasn't so far. Just because someone is under suspicion of something, it doesn't mean it was done. So, if it does become proven that he did this and he isn't punished, then yes, your argument is correct. Until then, the worst that could happen is that Warren would be under suspicion of doing something like this.
    We both know there was a QPQ. If you accept this premise, then you should vote against Trump, no matter who the Democrat is.


    I agree. We do already have libel and slander laws that handle some of this, but they are necessarily limited in scope.
    If Trump is reelected, doing this will be a lot harder, since we'll have already accepted that using lies to help a politician is ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    If correlations hold, which is a huge assumption, but a common assumption made for arguments sake... If correlations hold, a 1% decrease in diabetes would have led to Clinton winning easily.

    So maybe the solution is to help these self destructive people get out of their self destructive behavior. But that is difficult, so lets say a less nice solution. These people are dying much faster than they can be replaced... If we just outlive them, we can move on.
    Correlation doesn't equal causation. You're really reaching on the first part.

    Demographically speaking, rural whites will become less significant in the future, but parties shift in policy to adapt. The GOP will make more inroads toward minorities as it becomes politically expedient. For now, they're simply aiming for the people that the Democrats have largely left behind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    We both know there was a QPQ. If you accept this premise, then you should vote against Trump, no matter who the Democrat is.
    What I know is that the media and the Democrats are pushing this narrative really hard. Beyond that, we'll see what happens.


    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    If Trump is reelected, doing this will be a lot harder, since we'll have already accepted that using lies to help a politician is ok.
    Lying in political ads is old as the US itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    What I know is that the media and the Democrats are pushing this narrative really hard. Beyond that, we'll see what happens.
    I don't care about the media or the Democrats, I care about the facts. We have the notes from the call, we have witness accounts, and we have the administration's own confessions. If we were to discount all of the Democrats' claims, we'd still have more than enough evidence to say Trump broke the law to cheat in an election.
    I'm all for saying fuck them both when it really is both sides. But as of now, one party is mildly corrupt, the other party is beyond corrupt and Fascist.

    Lying in political ads is old as the US itself.
    At one point, slavery was as old as America itself. Just because we've tolerated something for a long time, doesn't mean we have to keep tolerating it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Uh, you're going to need to cite this NRA claim.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician_gag_law

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Correlation doesn't equal causation. You're really reaching on the first part.
    Never said they did. In theory, a true correlation would mean there was some sort causation relationship, but it might be another cause that causes both. For instance if both you and your brother have the same eye color, one did not cause the other, but rather both were caused by your parents.

    So if we can reduce the cause of population collapse among trump voters it would be reasonable to think we could reduce the number of trump voters. But as I said, it is a huge assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    The GOP will make more inroads toward minorities as it becomes politically expedient.
    We keep hearing that. They were going to make massive inroads into Hispanic voters.... How is that working?

    It is not quite as bad as the Nazis are doing with Jewish voters, so that is a good thing :-P

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    That's a really random law, but I don't see how this prevents doctors from helping people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    I don't care about the media or the Democrats, I care about the facts. We have the notes from the call, we have witness accounts, and we have the administration's own confessions. If we were to discount all of the Democrats' claims, we'd still have more than enough evidence to say Trump broke the law to cheat in an election.
    I'm all for saying fuck them both when it really is both sides. But as of now, one party is mildly corrupt, the other party is beyond corrupt and Fascist.



    At one point, slavery was as old as America itself. Just because we've tolerated something for a long time, doesn't mean we have to keep tolerating it.
    Then all we need is a trial to rule on the evidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    We keep hearing that. They were going to make massive inroads into Hispanic voters.... How is that working?

    It is not quite as bad as the Nazis are doing with Jewish voters, so that is a good thing :-P
    The Democrats used to be the party of segregation. Clearly, they changed. The GOP will change as society changes. That being said, Trump actually did better among Latinos than many assumed he would. Many Latinos actually do support stricter immigration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Then all we need is a trial to rule on the evidence.
    It would be just like the impeachment hearings. The Democrats would present evidence, the Republicans would deflect and attack the Democrats.
    Like I said before, I'd be fine with a trial, but at this point, it would be a waste of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    That's a really random law, but I don't see how this prevents doctors from helping people.
    You don't see how gaging physicians from helping their patients might prevent them from helping their patients?

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