Why The Democrats Are Right

[Truth Detector]

The Republicans do not care about being right, they only care about keeping Trump in power, ............

Democratic Hypocrites over impeachment on display:

[PoliTalker]

Hello Jarod,

The Republicans do not care about being right, they only care about keeping Trump in power, that is all that matters to them.

They are not fighting impeachment because they honestly believe it is wrong. They know the checks and balances our Constitution are important, they just don't want their guy to be subjected to them. They would support suspending Democracy and making Rump king for life if it were an option, it might be if he is reelected.

You can explain to them all day how constitutionally correct this impeachment is, how it is really the Congress's duty to stand up to him, they wont care.

Trump had committed these crimes in the past, and says he will keep doing it, that is when impeachment becomes necessary. He asked Russia for help in 2017 and Ukraine and China for help in 2019. Trump is not confident enough to stand on his own, he has to cheat to win.

Exactly right.

It is very sad to see. But understandable. I get it. We are asking Republicans to do the morally correct thing and we are essentially asking them to give up party power as the price for doing the morally correct thing. Nothing less. We are saying to them they get to respect themselves, but in return they have to give up power. And, mind you, they are fraught with propaganda that has them absolutely convinced that if they accept this 'deal,' that they are also accepting a crashed economy, higher taxes, legal abortion, gun control, liberal judges, wide open borders, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

It is only logical that they will trade their morals for everything they want.

I think the problem is that the Presidency has become stronger over time, and that has upset the balance of powers between the three branches. I shudder to guess what percentage of Trump fans could even name the three branches of government. So they see it as 'trade all that stuff for WHAT?' Remember, there are people who have the most difficulty distinguishing facts from opinions.

Are we now to understand that a President is not impeachable during the last period of his term that equals the amount of time to get a Congressional subpoena through the Supreme Court?

Perhaps we need a law to say such executive challenges are to be looked at once and only once, with no chance for appeal, and only by the SCOTUS, and that the SCOTUS will do so immediately upon being filed.

I am incensed that there is good solid evidence and the accused prevents the people from seeing it. We really have no choice but to impeach. Republicans have left the people no choice.

[Nordberg]

Crossfire was legal and appropriate function of the FBI. They were alerted that Russia was interfering in the election. They HAD to investigate. It was a big operation that found the Russians were involved in our election and there was no Dem conspiracy. Horowitz made it all clear. There may have been some small procedural mistakes ,but any big operation will have some. But the bottom line it it was NOT a deep state conspiracy and was founded in fact.
Do you rightys believe that once the FBI was told Russia was interfering that they should have ignored it? Why, because it was Trump and his people doing it?

[Truth Detector]

Turley: Rather they are meant to drive home a simple point: one can oppose President Trump’s policies or actions but still conclude that the current legal case for impeachment is not just woefully inadequate, but in some respects, dangerous, as the basis for the impeachment of an American president.

I am concerned about lowering impeachment standards to fit a paucity of evidence and an abundance of anger. If the House proceeds solely on the Ukrainian allegations, this impeachment would stand out among modern impeachments as the shortest proceeding, with the thinnest evidentiary record, and the narrowest grounds ever used to impeach a president. That does not bode well for future presidents who are working in a country often sharply and, at times, bitterly divided.

[Truth Detector]

THROWBACK: Dems Call Clinton Impeachment…A Lynching

[Darth Omar]

Hello Jarod,



Exactly right.

It is very sad to see. But understandable. I get it. We are asking Republicans to do the morally correct thing and we are essentially asking them to give up party power as the price for doing the morally correct thing. Nothing less. We are saying to them they get to respect themselves, but in return they have to give up power. And, mind you, they are fraught with propaganda that has them absolutely convinced that if they accept this 'deal,' that they are also accepting a crashed economy, higher taxes, legal abortion, gun control, liberal judges, wide open borders, etc, etc, etc. You get the idea.

It is only logical that they will trade their morals for everything they want.

I think the problem is that the Presidency has become stronger over time, and that has upset the balance of powers between the three branches. I shudder to guess what percentage of Trump fans could even name the three branches of government. So they see it as 'trade all that stuff for WHAT?' Remember, there are people who have the most difficulty distinguishing facts from opinions.

Are we now to understand that a President is not impeachable during the last period of his term that equals the amount of time to get a Congressional subpoena through the Supreme Court?

Perhaps we need a law to say such executive challenges are to be looked at once and only once, with no chance for appeal, and only by the SCOTUS, and that the SCOTUS will do so immediately upon being filed.

I am incensed that there is good solid evidence and the accused prevents the people from seeing it. We really have no choice but to impeach. Republicans have left the people no choice.

Well, maybe we’ll get an actual trial with due process and etc lol.

That means Republicans get Hunter Biden, the WB, Schiff on the stand and under oath. Personally, I like to get the WB lawyer on the stand so he can give an accounting for what he meant in my sig.

63 million voters are interested in whether this thing was orchestrated. Because it certainly appears to have been.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

The Republicans do not care about being right, they only care about keeping Trump in power, that is all that matters to them.

They are not fighting impeachment because they honestly believe it is wrong. They know the checks and balances our Constitution are important, they just don't want their guy to be subjected to them. They would support suspending Democracy and making Rump king for life if it were an option, it might be if he is reelected.

You can explain to them all day how constitutionally correct this impeachment is, how it is really the Congress's duty to stand up to him, they wont care.

Trump had committed these crimes in the past, and says he will keep doing it, that is when impeachment becomes necessary. He asked Russia for help in 2017 and Ukraine and China for help in 2019. Trump is not confident enough to stand on his own, he has to cheat to win.

you want to suspend democracy. you want to overturn an election. im sorry you don't understand the electoral college but that's in the "your problem" pile.

[Nordberg]

The Horowitz report says Crossfire was in compliance with FBI policies and was not political. There was no political bias. It operated with authorized purposes. It did not rely on Steele Dossier. The Dossier came after the investigation had been opened.
In essence, Horowitz, who rightys have been touting as a great and revealing investigation , shot down so many right-wing talking points. It was revealing. It showed again that deep staters are daft.

[Stretch]

The Democrats are right and the Republicans are wrong about the impeachment issue because in order to believe the Republican side of the story it is necessary to block out certain points made by the Democrats.

In order to believe the Democratic side of the issue no point made by the Republicans needs to be ignored at all. There is an explanation for every single point raised by the Republicans, which either disputes it or simply proves it wrong.

Everything which has been said can be considered, and the impartial observer would still conclude that the Democrats have made their case for impeachment.

For example, Republicans have said repeatedly that the aid was given, and Zelenski got a meeting with Trump.

That's not exactly true. The aid was only released after the WB exposed the scandal, and Zelenski never got the WH meeting which was promised.

Next up, we have the 'only hearsay evidence' claim, which is false. Some of the evidence is direct evidence, and for the first time ever in history we have a completely recalcitrant President who has simply refused to cooperate with impeachment. Nixon turn over tapes, Clinton answered questions. Trump has flatly refused to cooperate. He knows that if Democrats try to force him to comply with subpoenas that he can drag it out in court past the 2020 election. (Trump's M.O.) Since this impeachment is about abuse of office involving rigging the 2020 election, it cannot wait until then. And it doesn't have to. Democrats have made their case.

Then there is this idea that the impeachment is being rushed. Not so. The Clinton impeachment took 73 days, this one just went into the 76th day. It is already more lengthy than when Republicans impeached Bill Clinton.

No QPQ? Yes, there was. Right there in the phone call, combined with the other evidence. It has been shown that Zelenski understood the WH meeting was conditioned on the investigations. He said in the phone call that he looked forward to meeting Trump at the WH and that he intended to look into the investigations. 17 witnesses all filled in the the same story that the aid was halted for the purpose of forcing the announcement of the Biden investigation.

Trump abused the power of his office, obstructed Justice, obstructed Congress, intimidated witnesses, and leveraged aid in return for a political favor by a foreign nation in order to rig the 2020 election, and he did so while pretending to work for we the people as he really did his own personal business. That behavior is unacceptable. He must be impeached and removed. We can not let this go, this cannot be OK for a President.

The Democrats have made their case, and it is rock solid. There can be no dispute, only obfuscation, which is all the Republicans have offered.

Republicans do not say word one about the obstruction or intimidation of witnesses. They have to ignore those charges to try to make their case, which is why they can't do it.

hahahahaha! It's over. DOA in Senate. Do like your wretched 'leader' Pelosi. Get over it, move on like she has, get a life.
They finally "shut up and did it". On to the funeral in the Senate so the left can mourn for another 4 years.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Darth,

Well, maybe we’ll get an actual trial with due process and etc lol.

That means Republicans get Hunter Biden, the WB, Schiff on the stand and under oath. Personally, I like to get the WB lawyer on the stand so he can give an accounting for what he meant in my sig.

That means you get the same to chance to ask for them as you had in the House. Roberts decides this time. I'm not so sure he is loyal to Trump. He's got no reason to be.

63 million voters are interested in whether this thing was orchestrated. Because it certainly appears to have been.

Well let's see. He got elected with what percentage of the vote?

And what's his RCP average approval now?

Looks to me like he's lost a few million people.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

The Horowitz report says Crossfire was in compliance with FBI policies and was not political. There was no political bias. It operated with authorized purposes. It did not rely on Steele Dossier. The Dossier came after the investigation had been opened.
In essence, Horowitz, who rightys have been touting as a great and revealing investigation , shot down so many right-wing talking points. It was revealing. It showed again that deep staters are daft.

No Deep State, eh?

Well, that means all the Trump fans who thought there was a Deep State were mistaken, just got it completely wrong, believed in something that wasn't true. They got taken in by propaganda.

Very sad.

Well, I hope they learn their lesson and try to be more suspicious about things that sound too good to be true. And I hope they admit to themselves that they got it wrong. Otherwise, they could be the kind of person who has basic difficulty discerning fact from opinion.

[Celticguy]

The House hearings were a prime example of this.

Democrats focused on the facts.

Republicans hardly tried to dispute the facts but instead talked mostly about Democrats.

Hello. Democrats were not the topic of debate. President Trump's performance was.

It's like Republicans have gone to the Roger Stone school of 'why Nixon was really innocent.'

Democrats ignored facts that are central to the matter:
The call itself
The statements from the Ukrainians
"I want nothing, no quid pro quo"

This is like deckaring there to be a hurricane because its windy while ignoring all the fans running on high and no rain.
Youve got less than nothing.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Democrats ignored facts that are central to the matter:
The call itself

Ridiculous. The call was what broke the dam. Democrats found the call very troubling, just as was reported by non partisan career diplomacy workers.

The statements from the Ukrainians

Which statements? The cherry-picked ones Zelenski was forced to say to try to avoid angering Trump? Zelenski enjoys bipartisan support in Congress. He knows better than to get involved in US domestic politics. He needs to protect Ukraine's relationship with the USA. It is very important to Ukraine to do that.

"I want nothing, no quid pro quo"

Yeah. Why on Earth would President Trump immediately start talking in legal terms, claiming innocence before he was ever accused? And since when are we able to take Trump's own word for ANYTHING? He took Putin's word for not interfering over our own IC. Said he would release his taxes, and a string of other proven lies. Since when does any prosecution drop it's rock solid case because the accused said he wasn't doing anything wrong?

This is like deckaring there to be a hurricane because its windy while ignoring all the fans running on high and no rain.
Youve got less than nothing.

If you think abuse of power and obstructing Congress are nothing then I presume you would have let Obama or Hillary off if they had been accused of the same thing?

If you would not apply the same standards to President Obama then you have no right to apply them to President Trump.

This is not a partisan battle despite you trying to make it one. This is about an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Republican's duty is to uphold the Constitution and the power to impeach when it is needed. By not fulfilling their duty and instead rising to the President's defense in a strictly partisan manner SHOWS that Republicans are shirking their duty and failing to uphold their oaths of office.

Republicans are shirking their duty to America.

Here is yet another reason why Democrats are right.

If President Obama had been accused of this, Democrats would not protect him, not defend wrong doing. Republicans on the other hand would be unanimous in wanting to impeach President Obama. I guarantee you this is a fact: If Obama had done this, every single Republican Trump supporter who now thinks Trump is innocent would be finding Obama guilty. Guaranteed. Same evidence, same situation, parties reversed. Guaranteed.

IF Obama had done this. Which he did NOT. This is the first time in our history that a President has openly sought foreign intervention into our domestic elections. Nixon tried domestic intervention in our elections. That was bad enough to force him out. This is worse. We have a right to know that our elections are OUR elections, not being meddled with by non-Americans.

If Obama had done this it would have been unthinkable. Jaws would have dropped. It is so not like him. But if the evidence was clear, Democrats would have no other choice but to hold him accountable. They would make sure it was true, and if it was, they would not be defending his actions. Democrats would hold Obama accountable for this same misconduct.

But Republicans are giving Trump a big fat free pass.

Saying wrongdoing is OK with them as long as the economy stays great and we work towards killing legal abortion and we keep getting ultra conservative judges. Shame. The trade off is your morals for some political gains. Let me ask something. What good are the political gains if you had to abandon your morals and loyalty to the Constitution? Isn't that too much of a price to pay?

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



Ridiculous. The call was what broke the dam. Democrats found the call very troubling, just as was reported by non partisan career diplomacy workers.



Which statements? The cherry-picked ones Zelenski was forced to say to try to avoid angering Trump? Zelenski enjoys bipartisan support in Congress. He knows better than to get involved in US domestic politics. He needs to protect Ukraine's relationship with the USA. It is very important to Ukraine to do that.



Yeah. Why on Earth would President Trump immediately start talking in legal terms, claiming innocence before he was ever accused? And since when are we able to take Trump's own word for ANYTHING? He took Putin's word for not interfering over our own IC. Said he would release his taxes, and a string of other proven lies. Since when does any prosecution drop it's rock solid case because the accused said he wasn't doing anything wrong?



If you think abuse of power and obstructing Congress are nothing then I presume you would have let Obama or Hillary off if they had been accused of the same thing?

If you would not apply the same standards to President Obama then you have no right to apply them to President Trump.

This is not a partisan battle despite you trying to make it one. This is about an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Republican's duty is to uphold the Constitution and the power to impeach when it is needed. By not fulfilling their duty and instead rising to the President's defense in a strictly partisan manner SHOWS that Republicans are shirking their duty and failing to uphold their oaths of office.

Republicans are shirking their duty to America.

Here is yet another reason why Democrats are right.

If President Obama had been accused of this, Democrats would not protect him, not defend wrong doing. Republicans on the other hand would be unanimous in wanting to impeach President Obama. I guarantee you this is a fact: If Obama had done this, every single Republican Trump supporter who now thinks Trump is innocent would be finding Obama guilty. Guaranteed. Same evidence, same situation, parties reversed. Guaranteed.

IF Obama had done this. Which he did NOT. This is the first time in our history that a President has openly sought foreign intervention into our domestic elections. Nixon tried domestic intervention in our elections. That was bad enough to force him out. This is worse. We have a right to know that our elections are OUR elections, not being meddled with by non-Americans.

If Obama had done this it would have been unthinkable. Jaws would have dropped. It is so not like him. But if the evidence was clear, Democrats would have no other choice but to hold him accountable. They would make sure it was true, and if it was, they would not be defending his actions. Democrats would hold Obama accountable for this same misconduct.

But Republicans are giving Trump a big fat free pass.

Saying wrongdoing is OK with them as long as the economy stays great and we work towards killing legal abortion and we keep getting ultra conservative judges. Shame. The trade off is your morals for some political gains. Let me ask something. What good are the political gains if you had to abandon your morals and loyalty to the Constitution? Isn't that too much of a price to pay?

Rationalize away. The facts are the facts.
By the way, Trump deals in contracts for a living. Quid pro quo is commonly used.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Rationalize away. The facts are the facts.
By the way, Trump deals in contracts for a living. Quid pro quo is commonly used.

And Trump often ends up in court for the way he deals. He lost his Hotel in Panama City, they ripped the name off it, he was accused of tax evasion and fraud. Same old story. It's worth one value when talking to potential investors, but another value when being assessed for taxes. He screwed all the investors by collecting the money for the taxes, then not paying them. Everybody was pissed. No wonder they had to have security escort the Trump people out. Later they found widespread destruction inside and safety devices out of date and disabled. Great management. Great deal maker.

Trump is always trying to screw somebody. This time he went too far. He is trying to screw the voters. We are not having it. 2020 needs to be a fair election.