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Thread: A view point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I cannot argue with that. Books that were written 2000 years ago undoubtedly should not be considered accurate historical accounts or infallible guides to human conduct. I am nevertheless willing to accept there is existential and metaphysical value to be found in the New Testament, the Jewish Bible, the Annalects of Confucius, the Quran, the Bhagadavida.

    Speaking of contradictions, any layperson remotely familiar with Einstein's relativity, dilation of time and space, and quantum theory could easily convince themselves that modern physics is chock full of contradiction!
    Quote Originally Posted by MASON View Post
    "Jesus was either liar,lunatic,or LORD"
    Thomas Aquinas
    I am almost positive Jesus himself never claimed to be God.
    That was a claim later advanced by Paul, the authors of the New Testament, and other early Christians.

    Jesus considered himself a Jewish apocalyptic prophet who was compelled to teach about the impending Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was not the only Jewish apocalyptic prophet of that era; you basically could not throw a stone without hitting one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I am almost positive Jesus himself never claimed to be God.
    That was a claim later advanced by Paul, the authors of the New Testament, and other early Christians.

    Jesus considered himself a Jewish apocalyptic prophet who was compelled to teach about the impending Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was not the only Jewish apocalyptic prophet of that era; you basically could not throw a stone without hitting one.
    You're wrong the reason they had Jesus killed,was for saying "Before Abraham I Am"!
    Why did that lead to his death?
    Because YHWH told Moses tell them I Am,who I Am.
    Margot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    You're wrong the reason they had Jesus killed,was for saying "Before Abraham I Am"!
    Why did that lead to his death?
    Because YHWH told Moses tell them I Am,who I Am.
    there were a LOT of "prophets" in those times claiming all sorts of things.....Jesus can thank Roman record keeping for his place in history. Note that AROUND THE WORLD there existed cultures and societies with their own deities, prophets, etc. WHO NEVER HEARD OF THE JEWS OR JESUS. They were no better or worse than any other people on the planet. Mind you, if it weren't for theocracy and colonialism....Christianity would have either been regulated to religious obscurity or have just been another quaint regional faith (IMHO, of course). I've got no particular axe to grind with Christians, as most of the New Testament has some pretty great ideas....I just don't ignore all the inconsistency and contradictions.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    You're wrong the reason they had Jesus killed,was for saying "Before Abraham I Am"!
    Why did that lead to his death?
    Because YHWH told Moses tell them I Am,who I Am.
    You are right, but from what I understand, I believe it is only towards the end of the first century, in the Gospel of John is there such an indication that Jesus suggest that he was God.

    In none of the earlier Gospels, or in the writings of Paul is there any indication that Jesus called himself God.

    In the earliest Gospel, Mark, speaks of Jesus as human who is the son of God, which in Hebrew tradition is supposed to refer individuals who arbitrate God's will on Earth, but are not themselves divine beings.

    One has to accept that the latest Gospel written by John is authoritative, and one has to suspend any scholarly examinations as to why the earlier Gospels do not explicitly state that Jesus is God or called himself God.

    I have zero problem with anyone who wants to interpret and believe that the Gospels are a testament that Jesus is God. That is a matter of faith. But I think the New Testament is open to scholarly inquiry and investigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    there were a LOT of "prophets" in those times claiming all sorts of things.....Jesus can thank Roman record keeping for his place in history. Note that AROUND THE WORLD there existed cultures and societies with their own deities, prophets, etc. WHO NEVER HEARD OF THE JEWS OR JESUS. They were no better or worse than any other people on the planet. Mind you, if it weren't for theocracy and colonialism....Christianity would have either been regulated to religious obscurity or have just been another quaint regional faith (IMHO, of course). I've got no particular axe to grind with Christians, as most of the New Testament has some pretty great ideas....I just don't ignore all the inconsistency and contradictions.
    You every have a epiphany of the Holy Spirit?
    Margot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    You are right, but from what I understand, I believe it is only towards the end of the first century, in the Gospel of John is there such an indication that Jesus suggest that he was God.

    In none of the earlier Gospels, or in the writings of Paul is there any indication that Jesus called himself God.

    In the earliest Gospel, Mark, speaks of Jesus as human who is the son of God, which in Hebrew tradition is supposed to refer individuals who arbitrate God's will on Earth, but are not themselves divine beings.

    One has to accept that the latest Gospel written by John is authoritative, and one has to suspend any scholarly examinations as to why the earlier Gospels do not explicitly state that Jesus is God or called himself God.

    I have zero problem with anyone who wants to interpret and believe that the Gospels are a testament that Jesus is God. That is a matter of faith. But I think the New Testament is open to scholarly inquiry and investigation.
    I never read the Bible till years after a epiphany of the Holy Spirit,who taught me the Bible,specializing in Passover and how it relates to Jesus the Passover Lamb,and Michael the Archangel the Passover Angel.
    Margot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    You are right, but from what I understand, I believe it is only towards the end of the first century, in the Gospel of John is there such an indication that Jesus suggest that he was God.

    In none of the earlier Gospels, or in the writings of Paul is there any indication that Jesus called himself God.

    In the earliest Gospel, Mark, speaks of Jesus as human who is the son of God, which in Hebrew tradition is supposed to refer individuals who arbitrate God's will on Earth, but are not themselves divine beings.

    One has to accept that the latest Gospel written by John is authoritative, and one has to suspend any scholarly examinations as to why the earlier Gospels do not explicitly state that Jesus is God or called himself God.

    I have zero problem with anyone who wants to interpret and believe that the Gospels are a testament that Jesus is God. That is a matter of faith. But I think the New Testament is open to scholarly inquiry and investigation.
    It's right in John! "When you've seen the Son,you've seen the Father"
    Jesus didn't leave space for interpretation!
    As Thomas Aquinas said.
    "Jesus was either Liar,Lunatic,or LORD"
    Margot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post


    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    there were a LOT of "prophets" in those times claiming all sorts of things.....Jesus can thank Roman record keeping for his place in history. Note that AROUND THE WORLD there existed cultures and societies with their own deities, prophets, etc. WHO NEVER HEARD OF THE JEWS OR JESUS. They were no better or worse than any other people on the planet. Mind you, if it weren't for theocracy and colonialism....Christianity would have either been regulated to religious obscurity or have just been another quaint regional faith (IMHO, of course). I've got no particular axe to grind with Christians, as most of the New Testament has some pretty great ideas....I just don't ignore all the inconsistency and contradictions.

    You every have a epiphany of the Holy Spirit?
    I notice how you ignore all my other points.

    You ever reach the state of enlightenment via meditation and contemplation? Everyone's got their own way of getting straight....whether is just common sense or a touch with a divine entity is to determined by the honest observer.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    I notice how you ignore all my other points.

    You ever reach the state of enlightenment via meditation and contemplation? Everyone's got their own way of getting straight....whether is just common sense or a touch with a divine entity is to determined by the honest observer.
    Sounds like you've enjoyed LSD.
    Melchizedek

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