The history of Thanksgiving identifies America's Christian, libertarian roots

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ALL true, thank you.

[MAGA MAN]

Washington also started the tradition of having chaplains in the Army.

[StoneByStone]

This is provably false. From Ben Franklin proposing that our National Seal be an image of Moses parting the Red Sea with the inscription "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God,"

He may have proposed it, but it didn't pass, because the Founders didn't want America to be a Christian country.

to some of the ratifying states HAVING official state religions at the time of the Founding,

In name only. Which states had laws that were actually based on biblical law?

to the Declaration expressly basing our revolution on Natural Rights that come from God,

Christianity isn't the only philosophy with a god.

to the overwhelming number of quotes from the Founders directly citing scripture and God as the basis for the legitimacy of the Revolution,

So they tried to use Christianity to prove the Revolution was legitimate. Again, what aspects of Christianity were the laws based on?

Christianity is at the core of our identity. I know that's not a conclusion liberal bigots can allow themselves to reach (all the evidence be damned), but facts don't care about your snowflake feelings.

The reason you're getting angry is because you know I'm right.

[Darth Omar]

The kind of Christianity you are (incorrectly) saying America is based on actually goes against American culture. America was actually based on the Enlightenment with Christian influence being minimal. Not only is American culture not based on the Pilgrims' Christianity, but if a community tried practicing that kind of Christianity today, your buddies at Fox News would call them part of the War on Christmas.

But you’re begging the question of whether the Enlightenment could have occurred in anything other than a Christian culture lol.

Did it occur in a Muslim culture? Did it occur in pagan China? No, the Enlightenment began in the Christian West.

From there, the theory could be advanced that as a culture becomes less Christian, it will become less enlightened.

And well, what do ya know. It’s going on before our very eyes.

[StoneByStone]

But you’re begging the question of whether the Enlightenment could have occurred in anything other than a Christian culture lol.

Did it occur in a Muslim culture? Did it occur in pagan China? No, the Enlightenment began in the Christian West.

From there, the theory could be advanced that as a culture becomes less Christian, it will become less enlightened.

And well, what do ya know. It’s going on before our very eyes.

I blame the American education system for your post.

So during the Middle Ages, Europe was run by the Catholic Church. This was the only time Europe really had a Christian culture in that all of the laws were based on Christianity. The Enlightenment was a step away from Christianity because it was about Europeans deciding they wanted laws to be based on logic instead of religion. Many of the ideas that got popular during the Enlightenment, such as freedom of speech and democratic elections, were based on the Greek Pagan city-state of Ancient Athens.

The reason the Enlightenment happened isn't because the Europeans were Christian. It's because the Europeans were willing to step away from Christianity and embrace ancient Greek ideas.

[Iolo/Penderyn]

I am thankful there is a good day when the very seed of all leftists are rooted out of the Earth and the damned will no longer trouble creation. It is a good day of rest coming. Thank you, Jesus.

Duw, there's a Christian for ew! I don't think you are talking to the right bloke, matey - Baal's the chap you want. mun!

[Earl]

They were so extremely religious that they found even Christmas to be sacrilegious, as the Bible identifies only the Sabbath as a "holy day." Pointing this out in no way refutes that our heritage is overtly Christian and liberty-oriented (it actually reinforces it), or that the history of Thanksgiving drives that home. So thanks for the completely irrelevant self-defeating nonsense, as usual.

Pebble by Pebble has a penchant for the absurd.

[Darth Omar]

I blame the American education system for your post.

So during the Middle Ages, Europe was run by the Catholic Church. This was the only time Europe really had a Christian culture in that all of the laws were based on Christianity. The Enlightenment was a step away from Christianity because it was about Europeans deciding they wanted laws to be based on logic instead of religion. Many of the ideas that got popular during the Enlightenment, such as freedom of speech and democratic elections, were based on the Greek Pagan city-state of Ancient Athens.

The reason the Enlightenment happened isn't because the Europeans were Christian. It's because the Europeans were willing to step away from Christianity and embrace ancient Greek ideas.

In the first sentence you conflated culture with government lol.

They are two distinct things. Europe abandoned theocracy [theocracy contradicts the NT] centuries ago but still retained its Christian culture until very, very recently—in historical terms. Churches dotted the landscape from Ireland to Eastern Europe and beyond.

Meanwhile, freedom, democracy, science and all the products of the Enlightenment flourished.

Presently, it’s not unfair to call Europe, post-Christian in cultural terms. Basically, Europe has lost its cultural identity. And it won’t be long before it starts to lose some of the products of the Enlightenment. The same thing is happening here.

We’re just a little farther behind.

[Earl]

Europe, with their immigration debacle, has reached the nadir of their existence.

The far left wants the same for America,

[StoneByStone]

In the first sentence you conflated culture with government lol.

Government and laws are part of culture. Western Civilization is partly defined by Democracy.

They are two distinct things. Europe abandoned theocracy [theocracy contradicts the NT] centuries ago but still retained its Christian culture until very, very recently—in historical terms. Churches dotted the landscape from Ireland to Eastern Europe and beyond.

Theocracy doesn't contradict the NT. What does contradict the NT is the many Greek ideas that defined the Enlightenment.

I will agree that Christian imagery is part of Western culture. However, Western Civilization is not based on Christianity. And that was my original point. The OP is wrong, America does not have Christian roots. America has Enlightenment roots with some Christian influence, mainly in regards to imagery.

Presently, it’s not unfair to call Europe, post-Christian in cultural terms. Basically, Europe has lost its cultural identity. And it won’t be long before it starts to lose some of the products of the Enlightenment. The same thing is happening here.

Sure, but that's not because of religion. The European countries are losing their cultural identities because of mass immigration. And while Christianity doesn't have the sway it used to, it's still being used to justify Globalism for Europeans who are still religious. The Pope and various Protestant churches are encouraging immigration from the non-white world.

[Ralph]

If this fellow is an historian, why doesn't he own up that few people gave a damn for the Pilgrim Fathers' Thanksgiving until the Civil War, when it was made a national holiday. Why? Because the first English settlement was in Virginia, NOT Massachusetts. And Virginia, of course, was in rebellion - couldn't have those rebs claiming to be the original Americans.

It was one of the most successful con jobs in history. Now most people think that the first Americans were the Pilgrim Fathers. And ooh, they were so pious! (not so big on the libertarianism, though).

Yeah....the "MAYFLOWER COMPACT" and the documented history actual recorded by William Bradford....is just a coverup.

The point? It not a political TRADITION...its a Christian Tradition, just like Xmast, and Easter. There are actually no historical roots found in Christian Doctrine as recorded in scripture...these holidays were created by Christians to demonstrate Christian gratitude toward God.

Its men that wants to inject politics into everything. It is a mission statement of Saul Alinsky to cause division among religious ideologies...divide and conquer. One must know their enemy....and OUR FRIEND "Saul Alinsky" is easy get to know. Just ask MSDNC host Chris Matthews

[Darth Omar]

Government and laws are part of culture. Western Civilization is partly defined by Democracy.



Theocracy doesn't contradict the NT. What does contradict the NT is the many Greek ideas that defined the Enlightenment.

I will agree that Christian imagery is part of Western culture. However, Western Civilization is not based on Christianity. And that was my original point. The OP is wrong, America does not have Christian roots. America has Enlightenment roots with some Christian influence, mainly in regards to imagery.



Sure, but that's not because of religion. The European countries are losing their cultural identities because of mass immigration. And while Christianity doesn't have the sway it used to, it's still being used to justify Globalism for Europeans who are still religious. The Pope and various Protestant churches are encouraging immigration from the non-white world.

The NT absolutely contradicts theocracy and I challenge you to cite chapter and verse if you claim otherwise.

And confining the Christian influences on culture to mere imagery is laughable. One of the reasons communist dictatorships clamp down on Christianity is because *it influences the way people think*. And the same thing goes on here to a lesser degree: the secular left actually knows it’s true that Christians make lousy wards of the state; are apt to reject socialism and etc.

The present Pope is out to lunch but he’s a great example of where ‘Christendom’ stands today in Europe.

[Iolo/Penderyn]

The NT absolutely contradicts theocracy and I challenge you to cite chapter and verse if you claim otherwise.

And confining the Christian influences on culture to mere imagery is laughable. One of the reasons communist dictatorships clamp down on Christianity is because *it influences the way people think*. And the same thing goes on here to a lesser degree: the secular left actually knows it’s true that Christians make lousy wards of the state; are apt to reject socialism and etc.

The present Pope is out to lunch but he’s a great example of where ‘Christendom’ stands today in Europe.

No Christian has ever rejected socialism, because that's what Christianity is in practical terms. Read Acts. What's rejected is State Capitalism.

[artichoke]

He may have proposed it, but it didn't pass, because the Founders didn't want America to be a Christian country.

Two problems with this lie:

1) There is zero indication of that from the evidence. Franklin, Jefferson and Adams all submitted proposals that were overly complicated, as with Adams' depiction of Hercules trying to decide between the path of virtue and pleasure. They were all rejected in favor of something much simpler and easier to recognize.

2) It relies on convincing people, contrary to all known evidence, that the two supposedly MOST secular Founders proposed overtly religious, emphatically Christian imagery and themes for our National Seal.

It's almost as if the only non-Christian element to our entire Founding was the Founders falling over each other to prevent this new Federal Government they were creating from declaring it, Methodist, for example, and forcing all the other states to follow suit. That's what "separation of church and state" (which is not in the Constitution anywhere, by the way) is about...preventing a national religion.

Next lie, please.

In name only. Which states had laws that were actually based on biblical law?

You do realize that you simply making things up and saying them doesn't make them true, right? One deeply religious state that had an officially declared religion at the time of the Founding was Massachusetts. Its Puritans were so "religious in name only" that they openly persecuted Quakers and other heretics. Maryland was specifically and expressly founded as a Roman Catholic state to serve as a sanctuary for anyone who wanted to practice the religion. Your profound ignorance of how omnipresent Christianity was among the Founders is a stunning indictment of government (re)education.

Christianity isn't the only philosophy with a god.

It isn't a philosophy at all, uneducated one.

And preventing the Federal Government from establishing a national religion (what the Founders clearly communicated was their intent) in no way implies that they were not Christian.

So they tried to use Christianity to prove the Revolution was legitimate.

Sure, but it is obviously more than that. If the stated reason and justification for the creation of an entirely new country (and its new laws) is rights from a Christian god, then Christianity inescapably defines a core part of that country's identity.

what aspects of Christianity were the laws based on?

-All men being created equal under God ==> Straight out of the Bible

-The sanctity of contract ==> Straight out of the Bible

-Two witnesses required to execute people ==> Straight out of the Bible

-Our rights are inalienable because they come from something higher than man ==> Straight out of the Bible

-Not punishing the son for the sins of the father ==> Straight out of the Bible

-No titles of nobility ==> Straight out of the Bible

-Consent of the governed ==> Straight out of the Bible

-Excepting for the Sabbath ==> Straight out of the Bible

The reason you're getting angry is...

Guessing that the reason you are concluding the exact opposite of what all the evidence shows is bigotry...is not anger. It's the only logical explanation left.

...because you know I'm right.

If that's the standard, then Democrats--the most easily and continuously triggered and offended people on the planet--must be wrong 24/7. Thanks for confirming what the thinking adults could already tell.

And no, you getting your ass handed to you with proof on each and every erroneous talking point is not you being "right."

[StoneByStone]

The NT absolutely contradicts theocracy and I challenge you to cite chapter and verse if you claim otherwise.

That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

And confining the Christian influences on culture to mere imagery is laughable. One of the reasons communist dictatorships clamp down on Christianity is because *it influences the way people think*. And the same thing goes on here to a lesser degree: the secular left actually knows it’s true that Christians make lousy wards of the state; are apt to reject socialism and etc.

Well those Communist dictators are wrong. Religion influences the way people think, but not nearly enough to influence culture on a grand scale. When we think of "Western values" we think of Democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, Abolitionism, equality before the law, and so on. These ideas go against the Bible and early Catholic Church. This means that all of these Christians who talk about how Christianity makes America great are actually ignoring their own religion so that they can have their American values. Which is normal. Humans are logical creatures and on some level we all know religion is bullshit. So virtually all religious people ignore parts of their religion so that they can live more logically.

The present Pope is out to lunch but he’s a great example of where ‘Christendom’ stands today in Europe.

Which just shows that Christianity has failed to protect Europe from Globalism. As soon as the (((Globalists))) got the upper hand, Christianity did what it always does. It changed itself to remain relevant.