The history of Thanksgiving identifies America's Christian, libertarian roots

[artichoke]

This is a historian breaking down why Thanksgiving matters, and how it identified us early on as a Christian society with deep libertarian principles (everything Democrats hate America for).

"McClay said of leftist contempt for Thanksgiving, “I think it’s a reflection of what — for some people — is the obsession with the politicization of all aspects of life, and everything has to be brought into conformity with some kind of ideological worldview.” McClay continued, “It’s almost like a kind of revolutionary religion, like in the French Revolution, the way they abolished the calendar, and tried to reinvent civilization from the bottom up. It’s the kind of mentality [against] something that really … is one of most admirable holidays imaginable. Of course, we aren’t the only ones that have Thanksgiving in the world, but it is integral to our essential practices, and it’s an expression of gratitude.”

“It has religious roots,” said McClay of the history of Thanksgiving. “In the 1620s — there’s some debate over when the first Thanksgiving was, whether it was in Virginia or whether it was in Plymouth, but it’s in the 17th century — it had religious overtones, particularly with the Pilgrims in 1621.” McClay added, “It is an amazing story. Of course they had come in pursuit of freedom to practice their religion and raise their children as they saw fit. They had come from the Netherlands, where religious liberty was available to them, but it was a hard place to live for various reasons, and particularly for their children, to have them grow up not speaking English and all of that, so they got on the Mayflower and came on over.”

“It was a terrible, brutal first winter,” stated McClay. “They suffered from disease and exposure, and about half of them died. Many of them never came off the ship because they saw the landing as so dangerous, but they did have favorable contacts with some of the native tribes, the Patuxet Tribe [and] Squanto, and he taught them how to cultivate corn, what plants to eat and what plants not to eat.” “[Squanto] was an intermediary,” explained McClay. “He helped [the Pilgrims] form relationships with the Wampanoag Tribe. … They had this celebratory feast in November 1621 to celebrate a successful harvest of corn that Squanto had helped show them [how] to cultivate. So that’s seen as the historical origin of it, and it was, by all accounts, by everything we know about it, and we don’t know a lot.”

McClay remarked, “Puritans were great about keeping journals and diaries. They saw success or failure as evidence of the degree to which they were being faithful to God. … That’s what their settlement was all about. They saw this as a mission, this errand into the wilderness.” “Ten years later, John Winthrop, who led the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which became Boston — he gave this magnificent speech … where the phrase ‘city on a hill’ comes from — makes it very clear this was a religious enterprise, so they’re grateful to God [for] the success in finally getting through — or at least having the materials to get through — the coming winter,” added McClay.

Historian Wilfred McClay: Thanksgiving Established Fundamental American Values Centuries Before 1776

[Tranquillus in Exile]

This is a historian breaking down why Thanksgiving matters, and how it identified us early on as a Christian society with deep libertarian principles (everything Democrats hate America for).

If this fellow is an historian, why doesn't he own up that few people gave a damn for the Pilgrim Fathers' Thanksgiving until the Civil War, when it was made a national holiday. Why? Because the first English settlement was in Virginia, NOT Massachusetts. And Virginia, of course, was in rebellion - couldn't have those rebs claiming to be the original Americans.

It was one of the most successful con jobs in history. Now most people think that the first Americans were the Pilgrim Fathers. And ooh, they were so pious! (not so big on the libertarianism, though).

[artichoke]

If this fellow is an historian, why doesn't he own up that few people gave a damn for the Pilgrim Fathers' Thanksgiving until the Civil War, when it was made a national holiday.

Something can only be important to people the moment it is made into a national holiday? I think events tend to transpire the other way around. Events that are important to people eventually become national holidays.

Because the first English settlement was in Viginia, NOT Massachusetts. And Virginia, of course, was in rebellion - couldn't have them claiming to be the original Americans.

This is a non-sequiter fallacy. Virginia being where the first English settlement was means Thanksgiving can't be legitimately based on the original settlers being saved by Native Americans and being thankful for it? And it means America couldn't have been deeply religious from the beginning...despite ALL the evidence to the contrary?

[Charoite]

https://www.christianity.com/church/...s-freedom.html

[domer76]

This is a historian breaking down why Thanksgiving matters, and how it identified us early on as a Christian society with deep libertarian principles (everything Democrats hate America for).

"McClay said of leftist contempt for Thanksgiving, “I think it’s a reflection of what — for some people — is the obsession with the politicization of all aspects of life, and everything has to be brought into conformity with some kind of ideological worldview.” McClay continued, “It’s almost like a kind of revolutionary religion, like in the French Revolution, the way they abolished the calendar, and tried to reinvent civilization from the bottom up. It’s the kind of mentality [against] something that really … is one of most admirable holidays imaginable. Of course, we aren’t the only ones that have Thanksgiving in the world, but it is integral to our essential practices, and it’s an expression of gratitude.”

“It has religious roots,” said McClay of the history of Thanksgiving. “In the 1620s — there’s some debate over when the first Thanksgiving was, whether it was in Virginia or whether it was in Plymouth, but it’s in the 17th century — it had religious overtones, particularly with the Pilgrims in 1621.” McClay added, “It is an amazing story. Of course they had come in pursuit of freedom to practice their religion and raise their children as they saw fit. They had come from the Netherlands, where religious liberty was available to them, but it was a hard place to live for various reasons, and particularly for their children, to have them grow up not speaking English and all of that, so they got on the Mayflower and came on over.”

“It was a terrible, brutal first winter,” stated McClay. “They suffered from disease and exposure, and about half of them died. Many of them never came off the ship because they saw the landing as so dangerous, but they did have favorable contacts with some of the native tribes, the Patuxet Tribe [and] Squanto, and he taught them how to cultivate corn, what plants to eat and what plants not to eat.” “[Squanto] was an intermediary,” explained McClay. “He helped [the Pilgrims] form relationships with the Wampanoag Tribe. … They had this celebratory feast in November 1621 to celebrate a successful harvest of corn that Squanto had helped show them [how] to cultivate. So that’s seen as the historical origin of it, and it was, by all accounts, by everything we know about it, and we don’t know a lot.”

McClay remarked, “Puritans were great about keeping journals and diaries. They saw success or failure as evidence of the degree to which they were being faithful to God. … That’s what their settlement was all about. They saw this as a mission, this errand into the wilderness.” “Ten years later, John Winthrop, who led the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which became Boston — he gave this magnificent speech … where the phrase ‘city on a hill’ comes from — makes it very clear this was a religious enterprise, so they’re grateful to God [for] the success in finally getting through — or at least having the materials to get through — the coming winter,” added McClay.

Historian Wilfred McClay: Thanksgiving Established Fundamental American Values Centuries Before 1776

Manifest Destiny and the slaughter of native Americans was also considered divine.

[artichoke]

https://www.christianity.com/church/...s-freedom.html

From your source:

"Religious persecution had prompted the Pilgrims to move from England to Holland in 1608, but none of the Pilgrim writers so much as hinted that a desire for greater religious freedom led them to leave Holland for America in 1620. By their own account, Holland was a place where God had blessed them with “much peace and liberty.” They cited factors other than religious persecution in explaining their decision to seek a new home across the ocean."

It is embarrassingly ignorant and dishonest to pretend, while simultaneously admitting that religious persecution is what started the Pilgrims off looking for another place to live, that it wasn't a major driving force...just because Holland was more free than most and had additional hardships for its citizens from which to flee. Events that cause entire populations to permanently abandon their countries and risk everything to be anywhere else do not suddenly become completely irrelevant to their motives just because 12 years have passed. That's absurd on its face.

This is just more petty nit-picking and hair-splitting as an excuse to reject whatever is conventional, normal, and expected (which is actually the most unoriginal and cliche habit of adolescents) instead of just letting a holiday be what it is.

[StoneByStone]

This is a historian breaking down why Thanksgiving matters, and how it identified us early on as a Christian society with deep libertarian principles (everything Democrats hate America for).

"McClay said of leftist contempt for Thanksgiving, “I think it’s a reflection of what — for some people — is the obsession with the politicization of all aspects of life, and everything has to be brought into conformity with some kind of ideological worldview.” McClay continued, “It’s almost like a kind of revolutionary religion, like in the French Revolution, the way they abolished the calendar, and tried to reinvent civilization from the bottom up. It’s the kind of mentality [against] something that really … is one of most admirable holidays imaginable. Of course, we aren’t the only ones that have Thanksgiving in the world, but it is integral to our essential practices, and it’s an expression of gratitude.”

“It has religious roots,” said McClay of the history of Thanksgiving. “In the 1620s — there’s some debate over when the first Thanksgiving was, whether it was in Virginia or whether it was in Plymouth, but it’s in the 17th century — it had religious overtones, particularly with the Pilgrims in 1621.” McClay added, “It is an amazing story. Of course they had come in pursuit of freedom to practice their religion and raise their children as they saw fit. They had come from the Netherlands, where religious liberty was available to them, but it was a hard place to live for various reasons, and particularly for their children, to have them grow up not speaking English and all of that, so they got on the Mayflower and came on over.”

“It was a terrible, brutal first winter,” stated McClay. “They suffered from disease and exposure, and about half of them died. Many of them never came off the ship because they saw the landing as so dangerous, but they did have favorable contacts with some of the native tribes, the Patuxet Tribe [and] Squanto, and he taught them how to cultivate corn, what plants to eat and what plants not to eat.” “[Squanto] was an intermediary,” explained McClay. “He helped [the Pilgrims] form relationships with the Wampanoag Tribe. … They had this celebratory feast in November 1621 to celebrate a successful harvest of corn that Squanto had helped show them [how] to cultivate. So that’s seen as the historical origin of it, and it was, by all accounts, by everything we know about it, and we don’t know a lot.”

McClay remarked, “Puritans were great about keeping journals and diaries. They saw success or failure as evidence of the degree to which they were being faithful to God. … That’s what their settlement was all about. They saw this as a mission, this errand into the wilderness.” “Ten years later, John Winthrop, who led the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which became Boston — he gave this magnificent speech … where the phrase ‘city on a hill’ comes from — makes it very clear this was a religious enterprise, so they’re grateful to God [for] the success in finally getting through — or at least having the materials to get through — the coming winter,” added McClay.

Historian Wilfred McClay: Thanksgiving Established Fundamental American Values Centuries Before 1776

The Pilgrims banned Christmas. They started the War on Christmas!

[NiftyNiblick]

Arminius continues to waste bandwidth with his inane drivel.

[artichoke]

The Pilgrims banned Christmas. They started the War on Christmas!

They were so extremely religious that they found even Christmas to be sacrilegious, as the Bible identifies only the Sabbath as a "holy day." Pointing this out in no way refutes that our heritage is overtly Christian and liberty-oriented (it actually reinforces it), or that the history of Thanksgiving drives that home. So thanks for the completely irrelevant self-defeating nonsense, as usual.

[artichoke]

Arminius continues to waste bandwidth with his inane drivel.

[Cancel 2020.2]

Damn, the lunatic liberals on here get it WRONG again. Pitiful.

[StoneByStone]

They were so extremely religious that they found even Christmas to be sacrilegious, as the Bible identifies only the Sabbath as a "holy day." Pointing this out in no way refutes that our heritage is overtly Christian and liberty-oriented (it actually reinforces it), or that the history of Thanksgiving drives that home. So thanks for the completely irrelevant self-defeating nonsense, as usual.

The kind of Christianity you are (incorrectly) saying America is based on actually goes against American culture. America was actually based on the Enlightenment with Christian influence being minimal. Not only is American culture not based on the Pilgrims' Christianity, but if a community tried practicing that kind of Christianity today, your buddies at Fox News would call them part of the War on Christmas.

[artichoke]

The kind of Christianity you are (incorrectly) saying America is based on actually goes against American culture. America was actually based on the Enlightenment with Christian influence being minimal.

This is provably false. From Ben Franklin proposing that our National Seal be an image of Moses parting the Red Sea with the inscription "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God," to some of the ratifying states HAVING official state religions at the time of the Founding, to the Declaration expressly basing our revolution on Natural Rights that come from God, to the overwhelming number of quotes from the Founders directly citing scripture and God as the basis for the legitimacy of the Revolution, Christianity is at the core of our identity. I know that's not a conclusion liberal bigots can allow themselves to reach (all the evidence be damned), but facts don't care about your snowflake feelings.



But by all means, continue presuming to lecture those who have done their research with more of your ignorant misinformation.

[Cinnabar]

Arminius continues to waste bandwidth with his inane drivel.

Probably gets paid to do it and notice how the Russkie asset trolls have nothing better to do on Thanksgiving than post about Thanksgiving because they actually don't celebrate Thanksgiving as it is not a Russkie Putin sanctioned holiday. Even if these are by some chance Americans, they are the modern day counterparts of the loyalists to the throne and did not want an independent nation and preferred a system of serfs and lords.

Trump only attracts birther racists, cowards, bible thumping phony Christians, the extraordinarily dumbed-down, fellow sociopaths, supine sycophants to dictators and authoritarians and paid Russkie asset trolls, regardless of the country of origin.

[artichoke]

Probably gets paid to do it and notice how the Russkie asset trolls have nothing better to do on Thanksgiving than post about Thanksgiving because they actually don't celebrate Thanksgiving as it is not a Russkie Putin sanctioned holiday. Even if these are by some chance Americans, they are the modern day counterparts of the loyalists to the throne and did not want an independent nation and preferred a system of serfs and lords.

Trump only attracts birther racists, cowards, bible thumping phony Christians, fellow sociopaths and supine sycophants to dictators and authoritarians.

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