Earl (11-16-2019)
I knew intuitively these whiney ass babies were LYING. If you start with that premise and simply google their latest declaration and put the KEY WORDS into a google search, it NEVER takes more than click to find the FACTS.
I have assumed for weeks that the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 'files' were getting A LOT of traffic on 'impeachment'. I also assumed since no one probably went back to the 1800's, that Nixon and Clinton impeachments were studied/pored over. I also assumed Schiff would never be so STUPID as to not do anything more than the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT the GOP Congress did when CLINTON was impeached for blowjobs.
I was correct. I assume there will be changes, not the least being consideration of process around the sea change in social media. No one read a tweet out loud from the chairman's seat as a president DENIGRATED a witness in real time.
So shut the fuck up and quit your whiney HE'S NOT PLAYING FAIR and deal. WHEN IT GOES TO THE SENATE I'M SURE MC CONNELL WILL WRITE HIS OWN RULES.
Rules of impeachment, then and now: ANALYSIS
Nov 2, 2019, 9:02 AM ET
Win Mcnamee/Getty ImagesRepublicans say the impeachment process isn't fair. Democrats say it's the fairest ever.
When it comes to these new impeachment rules, and comparing them to the processes of the past, both sides are making claims that aren't entirely true. Still, Democrats aren’t admitting that they are essentially shutting out White House lawyers, and Republicans are making too much of the limits on their subpoena power.
in Mcnamee/Getty Images
Speaker of the House, U.S. Rep. Nancy Pelosi presides over the U.S. House of Representatives as it votes on a resolution formalizing the impeachment inquiry centered on U.S. President Donald Trump in the House Chamber October 31, 2019.more +The first thing to understand is the impeachment proceedings used for former Presidents Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton began with the work of a pre-existing legal investigation; in those cases, it was an independent or special prosecutor.
The overarching difference now is that the House Intelligence Committee is playing the fact-gathering role that an independent or special prosecutor played in the previous cases. That means House Democrats have devised rules for a process that really hasn't happened in recent history.
David Hume Kennerly/Getty Images
Richard Nixon impeachment Judiciary Committee hearing on Capitol Hill on April 25, 1974.Subpoena power
Republicans object to a rule that says Democrats can shut down subpoenas requested by the GOP minority. But if you look closely at the language from the Clinton and Nixon examples, not a lot has changed.
Wally Mcnamee/Corbis via Getty Images
President Richard Nixon gives his farewell speech at the White House.Just as with the Clinton and Nixon proceedings, the majority in this case has the power to reject requests for witnesses and documents from the minority. But there's no doubt Rep. Adam Schiff, the House Intelligence Committee chairman leading the Democrats’ impeachment effort, has taken a more overtly partisan approach, wanting to make clear to Republicans, it seems, that he's not going to tolerate a circus atmosphere.
The rules this time say Republican requests for subpoenas have to be made 72 hours in advance and Schiff needs to approve them.
If there’s disagreement, the committee votes to resolve the matter.
Paul J. Richards/AFP via Getty Images
Members of the House Judiciary Committee discuss articles of impeachment against US President Bill Clinton Dec. 11, 1998, on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC.more +Compare that to the Nixon and Clinton impeachment resolutions, which both said the committee chairman and ranking members should act jointly in calling witnesses.
Even back then, though, a disagreement could be put to a committee vote and the party in power would have a clear advantage.
So, the language on subpoenas is more partisan this time (as are the politicians…), but the end result is more or less the same.
Lawyers
The White House also complains that President Donald Trump's lawyers don't have access to the proceedings. That is correct: the White House is being shut out of the hearings that really matter, the closed-door depositions and participation in the soon-to-come public hearings before the House Intelligence Committee.
This, arguably, is a departure from the norm.
On this point, Democrats are being disingenuous. They say in a Rules Committee fact sheet that "the resolution establishes opportunities for the President or his counsel to participate in the proceedings held by the Committee on the Judiciary."
Joyce Naltchayan/AP via Getty Images
The US Senate completed its second day in the impeachment trial. But unlike past impeachment proceedings, none of the current action is in Judiciary this time around. The Intelligence Committee and Schiff are running the show.
That's where the White House wants its lawyers and where much of the Democrats case will be made. This time, Judiciary has a significantly smaller role.
There will be lawyers present -- just not Trump’s lawyers. The new impeachment rules resolution says only committee lawyers can participate in the Intelligence Committee-run hearings. Republican committee lawyers will have equal time to ask questions and cross examine witnesses.
In the end, the process as called for in the Constitution is political, and it's designed so that the majority of a president's defense happens in the Senate during an actual trial once the House passes articles of impeachment.
If matters get to that point, the president’s lawyers will have ample opportunity to make his defense, with Schiff and other House managers conducting the prosecution, Chief Justice John Roberts presiding, senators acting as the jury, and Americans able to watch, and judge, every moment.
Last edited by Centerleftfl; 11-16-2019 at 09:37 AM.
WK1 3/28-/4 _Cases 301k--Dead 18.1k Lethality 2.72%
WK2 4/5-/13 _Cases 555k--Dead 22.1K Lethality 3.9%
WK3 4/20-/21 Cases 774k -Dead 37.2K Lethality 4.8%
WK4 4/22-/29 Cases 1M --Dead 58.8K Lethality 5.9%
WK5 5/1-/8__ Cases 1.3M -Dead 75.7K Lethality 6.1%
WK6 5/9-16__Cases 1.4M --Dead 85.8K Lethality 6.1%
WK7 5/17-24_Cases 1.7M - Dead 97.6K Lethality 5.9%
WK8 5/28 Cases 1.7M - DEAD 101.2K - Same
Earl (11-16-2019)
christiefan915 (11-16-2019), domer76 (11-16-2019), Phantasmal (11-16-2019), ThatOwlWoman (11-16-2019)
Tell that to Jordan and Stefanik who repeatedly tried to disrupt the proceedings on Friday, and had to be gaveled to order over and over.
Last edited by PoliTalker; 11-16-2019 at 09:16 AM.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Earl (11-16-2019)
christiefan915 (11-16-2019), Phantasmal (11-16-2019)
6th amendmentThe White House also complains that President Donald Trump's lawyers don't have access to the proceedings. That is correct: the White House is being shut out of the hearings that really matter, the closed-door depositions and participation in the soon-to-come public hearings before the House Intelligence Committee.
This, arguably, is a departure from the norm.
Earl (11-16-2019)
Jordan is a petty little ass. Trump needs a bulldog on the committee, he get one! COMPROMISED as he may be.
(Hell maybe that's it. I'll do your bidding Donny, in the meantime if I get into TROUBLE with OH and all those rape victims I FAILED TO PROTECT, I need you to have my back!)
WK1 3/28-/4 _Cases 301k--Dead 18.1k Lethality 2.72%
WK2 4/5-/13 _Cases 555k--Dead 22.1K Lethality 3.9%
WK3 4/20-/21 Cases 774k -Dead 37.2K Lethality 4.8%
WK4 4/22-/29 Cases 1M --Dead 58.8K Lethality 5.9%
WK5 5/1-/8__ Cases 1.3M -Dead 75.7K Lethality 6.1%
WK6 5/9-16__Cases 1.4M --Dead 85.8K Lethality 6.1%
WK7 5/17-24_Cases 1.7M - Dead 97.6K Lethality 5.9%
WK8 5/28 Cases 1.7M - DEAD 101.2K - Same
Earl (11-16-2019)
Jordan got the job no one else wanted.
Notice, there is no real counter to the witnesses testimonies. It will be interesting to see what witnesses come forward and take an oath in Trump’s defense. The Senate proceedings should be very interesting.
Earl (11-16-2019)
christiefan915 (11-16-2019), ThatOwlWoman (11-16-2019)
Wrong! (DUH) This is a political process not a criminal one. Read the 6th again. I dare you. Note the 3rd and 4th word in.
Do you guys EVER look up ANYTHING, ever? Here we'll help you out. It might be a stretch to GOOGLE the 4th.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State...
WK1 3/28-/4 _Cases 301k--Dead 18.1k Lethality 2.72%
WK2 4/5-/13 _Cases 555k--Dead 22.1K Lethality 3.9%
WK3 4/20-/21 Cases 774k -Dead 37.2K Lethality 4.8%
WK4 4/22-/29 Cases 1M --Dead 58.8K Lethality 5.9%
WK5 5/1-/8__ Cases 1.3M -Dead 75.7K Lethality 6.1%
WK6 5/9-16__Cases 1.4M --Dead 85.8K Lethality 6.1%
WK7 5/17-24_Cases 1.7M - Dead 97.6K Lethality 5.9%
WK8 5/28 Cases 1.7M - DEAD 101.2K - Same
domer76 (11-16-2019), ThatOwlWoman (11-16-2019)
WK1 3/28-/4 _Cases 301k--Dead 18.1k Lethality 2.72%
WK2 4/5-/13 _Cases 555k--Dead 22.1K Lethality 3.9%
WK3 4/20-/21 Cases 774k -Dead 37.2K Lethality 4.8%
WK4 4/22-/29 Cases 1M --Dead 58.8K Lethality 5.9%
WK5 5/1-/8__ Cases 1.3M -Dead 75.7K Lethality 6.1%
WK6 5/9-16__Cases 1.4M --Dead 85.8K Lethality 6.1%
WK7 5/17-24_Cases 1.7M - Dead 97.6K Lethality 5.9%
WK8 5/28 Cases 1.7M - DEAD 101.2K - Same
ThatOwlWoman (11-16-2019)
Last edited by PoliTalker; 11-16-2019 at 10:16 AM.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
christiefan915 (11-16-2019)
"Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain
PoliTalker (11-16-2019)
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
They came across like inept neophytes unfamiliar with the proceedings, and by arguing process they are tipping their hand that they have no real defense.
The best moment was when Congressman Welch said he would love to hear from the person who started all this, no, not the whistleblower, but President Trump himself, as he would be more than welcome to come and testify on his own behalf.
I'm sure they could keep a seat nice and hot, all for him.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
ThatOwlWoman (11-16-2019)
WTF are you yammering about? even your article shows there is a significant difference between Clinton and Trump in the House.
And whatever happened to the Articles of Impeachment? since they will be last instead of first this is the time to replicate Clinton's repesentation
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