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Thread: "We need Ukraine like an alcoholic needs a drink"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquillus in Exile View Post
    Are you saying that the Kremlin's attempt to destabilize the 2016 presidential election was a HOAX?
    Are you saying Ukraine’s attempt to undermine Trump in 2016 was a hoax?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    Are you saying Ukraine’s attempt to undermine Trump in 2016 was a hoax?
    this is why Trump not having a lawyer or the Repubs getting witnesses shot down ( and Schiff's rulings) are a pig circus

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    Man, feel better -- rest easy, America. NATO is providing critical military assistance to our key ally, Ukraine, in a struggle against Leonid Brezhnev and the Red Army.

    We're fighting them in Crimea. Why? So we don't have to fight them in Cleveland.

    That's what they're telling you. That's what they're demanding that you believe.


    Trump, by the way, disagrees with that. He is saying things like this:

    Trump:
    If you look at the Ukraine, we're the ones always fighting on the Ukraine. I never hear any other countries even mentioned. Ukraine is very far away from us. How come the countries near the Ukraine, surrounding the Ukraine -- how come they're not opening up and they're not at least protesting? I never hear anything from anybody except the United States.

    "Ukraine is very far away from us." That can be Trump's campaign slogan. In fact, let's hope it is Trump's campaign slogan.

    Now, it's not a sentence it's going to get you 800 on the SAT, obviously. But there is a kind of simple brilliance to it. It implies a question that official Washington cannot answer. And the question is this: Why exactly are we doing things this way? How does it help America?
    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tuck...chable-offense


    Tucker Carlson. One of Trump’s main dicksuckers. He licks Trump’s balls while Trump is pounding Hannity in the ass.

    Thanks for the laugh, Nuttinhoney. That was damn funny!


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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    I'm talking about he FBI counterintelligence and Mueller "Russian collusion" hoax
    FACTUAL RESULTS OF THE OBSTRUCTION INVESTIGATION

    A. The Campaign's Response to Reports About Russian Support for Trump
    B. The President's Conduct Concerning the Investigation of Michael Flynn
    C. The President's Reaction to Public Confirmation of the FBl's Russia Investigation
    D. Events Leading Up To and Surrounding the Termination of FBI Director Corney
    E. The President's Efforts to Remove the Special Counsel
    F. The President's Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel Investigation
    H. The President's Further Efforts to Have the Attorney General Take Over the Investigation
    I. The President Orders McGahn to Deny that the President Tried to Fire the Special Counsel
    J. The President's Conduct Towards Flynn, Manafort,
    K. The President's Conduct Involving Michael Cohen

    “Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General's recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony. Viewing the acts collectively can help to illuminate their significance. For example, the President's direction to McGahn to have the Special Counsel removed was followed almost immediately by his direction to Lewandowski to tell the Attorney General to limit the scope of the Russia investigation to prospective election-interference only-a temporal connection that suggests that both acts were taken with a related purpose with respect to the investigation.”
    ____________

    Obstruction of justice - 18 USC 1501-1521
    Witness intimidation 18 USC 1512
    Emoluments - US Constitution
    Abuse of power - no statute. Merely reason to be removed from office
    Extortion – 18 USC 112
    Solicitation of something of value from a foreign entity - 11CFR 110.2 and 11 CFR 300.2

    ______________

    Extortion – 4 elements
    Threat – withholding $400 million
    Intent – Forcing public announcement of investigations
    Fear – of loss of funding for defensive weapons against the Russians
    Property – the thing of value is the investigations of 2016 tampering and the Bidens

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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    FACTUAL RESULTS OF THE OBSTRUCTION INVESTIGATION

    A. The Campaign's Response to Reports About Russian Support for Trump
    B. The President's Conduct Concerning the Investigation of Michael Flynn
    C. The President's Reaction to Public Confirmation of the FBl's Russia Investigation
    D. Events Leading Up To and Surrounding the Termination of FBI Director Corney
    E. The President's Efforts to Remove the Special Counsel
    F. The President's Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel Investigation
    H. The President's Further Efforts to Have the Attorney General Take Over the Investigation
    I. The President Orders McGahn to Deny that the President Tried to Fire the Special Counsel
    J. The President's Conduct Towards Flynn, Manafort,
    K. The President's Conduct Involving Michael Cohen

    “Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General's recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony. Viewing the acts collectively can help to illuminate their significance. For example, the President's direction to McGahn to have the Special Counsel removed was followed almost immediately by his direction to Lewandowski to tell the Attorney General to limit the scope of the Russia investigation to prospective election-interference only-a temporal connection that suggests that both acts were taken with a related purpose with respect to the investigation.”
    ____________

    Obstruction of justice - 18 USC 1501-1521
    Witness intimidation 18 USC 1512
    Emoluments - US Constitution
    Abuse of power - no statute. Merely reason to be removed from office
    Extortion – 18 USC 112
    Solicitation of something of value from a foreign entity - 11CFR 110.2 and 11 CFR 300.2

    ______________

    Extortion – 4 elements
    Threat – withholding $400 million
    Intent – Forcing public announcement of investigations
    Fear – of loss of funding for defensive weapons against the Russians
    Property – the thing of value is the investigations of 2016 tampering and the Bidens
    spamarama

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    exactly. Obama wanted better relations as well -then the Russian Hoax came about and Russia is now our #1 Boogyman -even more then China -while China is clearly a much largerthreat
    Peace with Russia is all well-and-good. Obama was incredibly naïve about Russia, and Trump has unrealistic expectations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    spamarama
    What’s wrong, Nuttinhoney? Don’t like the truth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
    Peace with Russia is all well-and-good. Obama was incredibly naïve about Russia, and Trump has unrealistic expectations.
    you make these grand statements without any support. We did detente during th Cold War -why isn't it possible again

    Moreover ANY improvement to being in a HOT PROXY WAR WITH RUSSIA has to be possible.
    Why not attend peace talks??

    Trump doesn't see it because no one is advising him because ALL OF DC is in full blown Russiaphobia

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    you make these grand statements without any support. We did detente during th Cold War -why isn't it possible again

    Moreover ANY improvement to being in a HOT PROXY WAR WITH RUSSIA has to be possible.
    Why not attend peace talks??

    Trump doesn't see it because no one is advising him because ALL OF DC is in full blown Russiaphobia
    Détente was abandoned and replaced with victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
    Peace with Russia is all well-and-good. Obama was incredibly naïve about Russia, and Trump has unrealistic expectations.
    Obama was basically right about Russia.

    Russia is weak, economically. Their military is a joke compared to China—and ours. Putin can’t realistically threaten Europe and they almost certainly won’t, unless Putin decides he wants to become a crazed dictator over night. And Russia is nearly zero threat to us.

    So they might threaten Ukraine. Well, ok. Pakistan might threaten India. China threatens Hong Kong practically daily. Rocket Man was threatening his neighbors AND us not very long ago. You get the idea.

    What is our *compelling* national interest with Ukraine and Russia?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
    Détente was abandoned and replaced with victory.
    and then we did NATO expansion and started up Cold War 2.0 -what's your point? we can't have a peaceful co-existence ?
    Not with Russia phobia stalking the land -I agree on that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    Obama was basically right about Russia.

    Russia is weak, economically. Their military is a joke compared to China—and ours. Putin can’t realistically threaten Europe and they almost certainly won’t, unless Putin decides he wants to become a crazed dictator over night. And Russia is nearly zero threat to us.

    So they might threaten Ukraine. Well, ok. Pakistan might threaten India. China threatens Hong Kong practically daily. Rocket Man was threatening his neighbors AND us not very long ago. You get the idea.

    What is our *compelling* national interest with Ukraine and Russia?
    Russian military is high quality, on par with NATO -but they don't have the numbers.
    But when you add in China ( which we are forcing) then they do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    Obama was basically right about Russia.

    Russia is weak, economically. Their military is a joke compared to China—and ours. Putin can’t realistically threaten Europe and they almost certainly won’t, unless Putin decides he wants to become a crazed dictator over night. And Russia is nearly zero threat to us.

    So they might threaten Ukraine. Well, ok. Pakistan might threaten India. China threatens Hong Kong practically daily. Rocket Man was threatening his neighbors AND us not very long ago. You get the idea.

    What is our *compelling* national interest with Ukraine and Russia?
    Well, Pakistan is a far more grave threat to India, as many Muslims would be willing to go scorched-Earth with the nuclear arsenal. Ukraine is simply a means of undermining Russia. Keeping it free and independent deprives Russia of its resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
    Well, Pakistan is a far more grave threat to India, as many Muslims would be willing to go scorched-Earth with the nuclear arsenal. Ukraine is simply a means of undermining Russia. Keeping it free and independent deprives Russia of its resources.
    what "resources?"
    Russia has plenty of oil and nat gas -it doesn't need Uk "resources.

    In fact Nordstream2 bypasses Ukraine

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