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Thread: U.S. not interested in Peace for Ukraine's Donbass

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    Hello dukkha,

    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    U.S. not interested in Peace for Ukraine's Donbass
    What a bogus claim.

    There is an effort to bring peace to a war-torn region of Ukraine. We are not part of the fighting so we are not part of the peace process. That in no way says or means we are not interested in peace.

    You have NOTHING to back up your false claim. What statement or action can you cite that even SUGGESTS we are not interested in peace?

    And you're claiming the State Department doesn't want peace. Total BS. They are diplomats. The whole point of diplomacy is to AVOID war.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    There is an effort to bring peace to a war-torn region of Ukraine. We are not part of the fighting so we are not part of the peace process. That in no way says or means we are not interested in peace.

    You have NOTHING to back up your false claim. What statement or action can you cite that even SUGGESTS we are not interested in peace?

    And you're claiming the State Department doesn't want peace. Total BS. They are diplomats. The whole point of diplomacy is to AVOID war.
    WTF are you yammering about? do you not understand the term "proxy war"?
    WTF do you think we are doing, playing paddy cake with Russia?

    Under Obama;
    Merkle led the nascent peace process -it's why Obama refused to sell lethal defensive weapons to Ukraine.
    He was deferring to Merkle's wishes.

    If you had read the OP you would see there are talks trying to happened led by the Normandy 4

    The Normandy Format talks (French: Format Normandie) involve the representatives of the Normandy Four countries (Germany, Russia, Ukraine and France) who aim to resolve the war in Eastern Ukraine.
    It has been also known as the Normandy contact group.
    ^ notice the USA is not part of the process

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    we need to facilitate the peace process instead of funneling weapons to Ukraine factions
    I think we should do both.
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

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    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    I think we should do both.
    better then nothing..I have no problem with that

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to dukkha For This Post:

    Bigdog (11-14-2019)

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    Hello dukkha,

    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    WTF are you yammering about?
    Before we continue this discussion I would like to reach an agreement on how our discussion is to be conducted.

    I prefer that neither party talks down to the other party.

    Do you agree to that?
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello dukkha,



    Before we continue this discussion I would like to reach an agreement on how our discussion is to be conducted.

    I prefer that neither party talks down to the other party.

    Do you agree to that?
    i make no promises, I get really upset when I see Russiaphobia - it's bad for the world and world peace

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    Hello dukkha,

    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    i make no promises, I get really upset when I see Russiaphobia - it's bad for the world and world peace
    I am so into peace that I refuse to be a party in conversations which are not peaceful.

    A non-upset person has a difficult time conducting a meaningful conversation with an upset person, especially if the upset person is blaming the non-upset person for something which is not mutually accepted as fact.

    What is 'Russiaphobia,' and how is it bad for peace?
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello dukkha,



    I am so into peace that I refuse to be a party in conversations which are not peaceful.

    A non-upset person has a difficult time conducting a meaningful conversation with an upset person, especially if the upset person is blaming the non-upset person for something which is not mutually accepted as fact.

    What is 'Russiaphobia,' and how is it bad for peace?
    russiaphobia is what the Democrats have perpertrated since Trump won.

    For some strange reason the Democrtas want to be at war with Russia, you saw yesterday where they almost demanded it
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    apocalyptic politics ? lol

    uh huh. Yeltsin the Drunk is greater then Peter the Great redux ?
    Yeah, that's pretty much the endgame that Seattle has to look forward to. The council was all prepared to pass a tax that would have driven big business into the surrounding areas (like Microsoft's Redmond, Costco's Kirkland, and the jewel that is Bellevue), but, they got cold feet when Amazon threatened to halt production on a new facility. Fuckers.

    Yeltsin is like Babe Ruth; always drunk, and still better at playing the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Getin the ring View Post
    russiaphobia is what the Democrats have perpertrated since Trump won.

    For some strange reason the Democrtas want to be at war with Russia, you saw yesterday where they almost demanded it
    Dems were a Russian client for so many decades, it's really just a line of attack on Trump. Putin probably approves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bull Durham View Post
    Yeah, that's pretty much the endgame that Seattle has to look forward to. The council was all prepared to pass a tax that would have driven big business into the surrounding areas (like Microsoft's Redmond, Costco's Kirkland, and the jewel that is Bellevue), but, they got cold feet when Amazon threatened to halt production on a new facility. Fuckers.
    that is severely terrifying. I hope that left coast madness stays the hell out of Florida.
    At least they didn't chase Amazon away like AOC did in NYC.

    Yeltsin is like Babe Ruth; always drunk, and still better at playing the game.
    what game? "quarters" the drinking game?
    Yeltsin was a bloated figurehead to please the west, nothing more

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    why is the US not part of the peace process?

    Because the mindless warpigs,and bureaucrats like Taylor and Kent don't want peace.
    They want to play wargames. They want a proxy war with Russia.
    Sorry, Trump boot-lickers are not allowed to have it both ways.

    On the one hand, you advocate for an isolationist, ultra-nationalist America, freed from the fetters of international obligations.

    Then, without the slightest sense of irony, you demand to know why we are not playing a leading role in the Minsk Protocol and other international efforts to mediate in Ukraine.

    You need to pick one, and stick with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello dukkha,
    I am so into peace that I refuse to be a party in conversations which are not peaceful.
    A non-upset person has a difficult time conducting a meaningful conversation with an upset person, especially if the upset person is blaming the non-upset person for something which is not mutually accepted as fact.

    What is 'Russiaphobia,' and how is it bad for peace?
    being into peace is good, but you have to promote actions that lead to peace as well, or you
    (not you personally) are just a hypocrite,

    Russiaphobia is treating Russia solely as an existential threat -say like terrorism- without trying to improve relations. in practice it's viewing Russia solely as a zero sum game.
    Anything we do has to punish Russia,and anything Russia does has to be seen as a threat to the west.

    Obviously international relations are much more complex - but dumbing it down always to a zero sum
    hurts our own security ( or causes a bloated DoD budget at minimum).

    It's also blaming Russia for anything ( scapegoating) - like the "Russian collusion" hoax.

    It would be much better for Europe to have good relations with Russia.
    Less defense spending ( which is pure waste) and less tensions would also bring Russia back
    from it's way too cozy ties with China.

    I mentioned the "China card" -that was the policy of trying to keep Russia and China from a military alliance
    to threaten the west.



    We did that for 40 years, and it all fell apart under Obama. The reason was U.S.meddling in Ukraine's Euromaidan.
    That destroyed the "Russian reset" and started the whole Crimea annexation and the current war in Donbass
    Last edited by dukkha; 11-14-2019 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Sorry, Trump boot-lickers are not allowed to have it both ways.

    On the one hand, you advocate for an isolationist, ultra-nationalist America, freed from the fetters of international obligations.

    Then, without the slightest sense of irony, you demand to know why we are not playing a leading role in the Minsk Protocol and other international efforts to mediate in Ukraine.

    You need to pick one, and stick with it.
    ridiculous. nationalism and a foreign policy of transactional relationships ( except treaties) is not "isolationism"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    that is severely terrifying. I hope that left coast madness stays the hell out of Florida.
    At least they didn't chase Amazon away like AOC did in NYC.

    what game? "quarters" the drinking game?
    Yeltsin was a bloated figurehead to please the west, nothing more
    And that's what was go great about him! Keep in mind, though, that Yeltsin successfully got Russia through the transition period, without a violent military insurrection (a real possibility), and then he initiated the bankruptcy, which allowed Russia to get back on track, rather than delay the inevitable, and progress along with it.

    Putin will never have to make decisions about anything as dire as those examples. Instead, he tries to engineer a crisis, every so often.

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