Reality vs. trump supporters

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Hello Daddyo,



The fact that somebody said something does not make it true. He had strong reasons for avoiding angering President Trump.



If the intent was to undo the 2016 election that would have been done ASAP after the election, not closer to the end of the term.



I believe you are mistaken.



He did no such thing. He rightly flexed US muscle with the full backing of the US State Department and the EU. You have zero proof of corruption. Furthermore, the conspiracy theory you have embraced was initiated by Putin and works in his favor.



The evidence is there, it is clear. Trump fans simply refuse to recognize it for what it is.



If you are so certain that Trump is squeaky clean then why do you refuse to allow any oversight?

I enjoy a good debate myself but I am not like other posters. I do need to again caution you that I will not tolerate any inferences to my character nor 'critical thinking skills.' I am not the subject. Please curtail any such comments if you value having a respectful convo. Otherwise I will cut it off and you will have to suffice with the usual hurtful and nasty emotional insult contests. I know I represent a different kind of debate here. Rare. If that is of any value to you please adopt the habit of reading over what you write to me before posting and remove all references to me or my character. The rest of it I enjoy debating as well, but I have to draw this line for my own sanctity and I do mean it.

Daddyo, I can tell you give this great thought, and I appreciate that. I appreciate hearing your political views and I am prepared to offer you all the respect you deserve. You will notice I have said nothing about you, personally. And I won't. I require that in return. I'd hate to have to cut you off but I will not hesitate. My convictions on this matter are more important to me than the chance to debate you. That's where my priorities are, nothing personal and it needs to stay that way. I hope you agree. Just don't say anything about me and we'll be fine. Otherwise, well, it has been fun but it can be past tense real quick. I have asked twice now. I am unlikely to continue like that. I really do hope you can understand that and protect our fledgling rapport.

there's no crime. just speculations and hearsay. nobody's against oversight, we're against the petulant lies of butthurt democrats, ya anus.

[ThatOwlWoman]

I was interested in the legal definition of hearsay since our Reichwing friends think it's somehow a defense despite all the credible witnesses who testified what they heard/saw during the hearings. This site provides some illumination. I thought this paragraph was enlightening. It pretty much defeats the RWers' claims.

"Catchall Exception to the Rule against Hearsay

Finally, the last exception is the so-called "catchall" rule. It provides that evidence of a hearsay statement not included in one of the other exceptions may nevertheless be admitted if it meets these following conditions:

It has sound guarantees of trustworthiness

It is offered to help prove a material fact

It is more probative than other equivalent and reasonably obtainable evidence

Its admission would forward the cause of justice

The other parties have been notified that it will be offered into evidence"

( https://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...-evidence.html )

One thing that I think is kind of amusing -- the RWers disbelieve all the witnesses who testified that they heard Trump's convo with Zelensky but that doesn't count because they claim it's hearsay. Yet they instantly believe Zelensky on his version and his take on the convo, even though that would also be considered hearsay by their interpretation.

[evince]

Politico

"Ukrainian efforts to sabotage Trump backfire

Kiev officials are scrambling to make amends with the president-elect after quietly working to boost Clinton."

I may be mistaken but I dont lie. In this case I was right. Read it over a year ago. You can fall for the demoncrats propaganda but I prefer proof.

USA American itel groups all said it was bullshit

Putin promoted that lie publicly

YOU ARE A LIAR

[StoneByStone]

Truth Deflector has very little acquaintance with facts.

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He's probably less miserable now that we're living in the post-truth age.

[Daddyo]

Funny, one can say the same about the constant GOP investigations into Hillary. Much more time, effort and money spent and much less results than with Trump. But you're probably still one of those who pushes "Crooked Hillary" and chants "Lock her up".

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Lol you guys are sick. You know she admitted to having a private server. It had classified info on it. Both crimes. She ordered the destruction of subpoenaed cell phones and bleach bit wiped the server......oh like with a rag lol my god what balls......both crimes. Comey, the same scum bag who signed off on FISA warrants using known bogus info saved her ass by changing the wording from gross negligence. Actual crimes friend. Not partisan attacts against a president that they know they will lose to in 2020.

[Daddyo]

Hello Daddyo,



Thank you. I can appreciate maintaining a mutual respect for candor. Discussing politics is inherently explosive, so it is paramount to recognize the boundary between talking politics and simply devolving into an insult contest. If that is not done the convo quickly becomes a meaningless waste of time.

We should abandon all hope of changing one another's mind at the outset, and instead focus on sharing insight into why people feel the way they do, and how two Americans can see the same situation so very differently.

The discussions also provide the impetus to research what is being discussed, the result being the participants become better informed. I see respectful discussions as a win/win for all.



America has long recognized executive privilege, but it is not absolute. The President must be given some latitude but cannot be above the law. There must be oversight. The House is performing it's Constitutional duty to make sure the President is operating within the scope of his office. It is the balance of powers. Chairman Schiff is doing his solemn sworn duty very professionally, totally sticking to the task at hand. President Trump called Schiff a 'maniac,' which is completely untrue. Chairman Schiff has correctly stated in plain English, and very well so, the allegations against President Trump, without embellishment, in strictly serious candor. Nothing could be further from the truth in describing Chairman Schiff than Trump's hurtful and false words. Chairman Schiff talks in serious terms about the facts of the Ukraine Scandal as Trump rambles in the emotional fantasy his fans respond to. The candor of each side is like night and day. One side dealing with facts, the other lost in innuendo.

If President Trump wanted to properly speak up for himself he should be reminded that he would be perfectly welcome to come be sworn in and testify under oath.

It seems to we in the majority who do not approve of President Trump that his fans only wish to hear from him when he is NOT sworn to tell the truth, and strongly oppose having the President swear to tell them the truth. That so many people wish to be lied to is a testament to the power of propaganda. Trump fans appear to prefer being lied to.

President Trump could clear this all up by swearing to tell the truth and allowing all the key witnesses to testify. That he resists this accountability makes him look guilty.

That Trump fans protect and defend the President's resistance to oversight makes them look like they don't care if he abuses his power or violates the Constitution.



It was neither a sham nor a trial. It was an official and Constitutionally warranted Hearing in the United States House of Representatives, which was conducted in the utmost professional manner.



If somebody lies they are lying. If somebody else repeats the lie, it is still a lie. It is inconsequential how many times it is stated that 'the sky is green,' the sky is still blue.



That's just excuse-making. You don't fight corruption as a personal favor! The idea of that is preposterous. You fight corruption because it is the right thing to do. If going after Biden was to be official US policy it needed to go through the State Department, Justice and law enforcement, in coordination with Congress. You don't create an irresponsible fake State Department which answers only to the executive, with no oversight, on the President's personal payroll, and you certainly don't have that fake state department acting in opposition to the real one. Can't you even see the impropriety and the glaring conflict of interest in going after only Biden?

That's not 'fighting corruption.' That's abusing his power to go after a political rival.

When there is a conflict between the first 2 branches it is resolved in the 3rd.

It may look like republicans don't care but we do. Problem is it also seems that demoncrats are hell bent on removing this president. They have litterally said so. Russia collusion didnt work so now it's this. They went from QPQ to bribery once trump released the transcript. During the Schiff shit show he didnt allow a single republican witness. They didnt allow witnesses with exculpatory information. So we dont blame trump for resisting the witch hunt. I read the transcript and found nothing wrong. You did. Who is right?

The same garbage that are so concerned about this military aid to Ukraine and how desperately needed it was and how lives were at risk lol these same pieces of crap refused to give those damn missiles to ukraine instead giving blankets before trump took office. See I look at all that hypocrisy and I believe they are politically motivated traitors desperate to eliminate his victory in 2020 aka election meddling btw.

So no problem with bidens QPQ but trump fake QPQ turned to bribery is a threat to the republic. It's fake outrage from sacks of human dung in and all out attempt to turn an election to their favor. The very charge they level on trump.

There is NOTHING professional about Schiff. He is a traitor attempting to manipulate the 2020 election. ImO worst than foreign interference is domestic.

Again you have 2 parties involve in this "bribery" one has said he felt no pressure and didnt even know the missiles were being held up. A crime with no victim? Tough to bribe if they dont know the consequences for NOT complying.

The president has a duty via treaty with Ukraine to investigate corruption between us officials and Ukraine. He is the chief the head honcho. He is well within his rights to inquire and ask for assistance in this matter. Remember that biden admitted on video his crime so it really wasn't a bombshell expose game changer. Biden aka the nibble can't remember yesterday and trump needed no help since he admitted to the QPQ on film.

[Daddyo]

USA American itel groups all said it was bullshit

Putin promoted that lie publicly

YOU ARE A LIAR

Post a clip or a link. Or you are the liar.

[Adolf_Twitler]

Reality vs. trump supporters?

this is an oxymoron

Sorry, but these two can't be in the same title.

[Nordberg]

Trumpys are all reaching for the next thing to save them. Now the Durham investigation that they touted as blowing the roofs off Biden and the Dems came up flat empty. He found zero evidence . Do you have another one going? The IG report. Nope. They must have been secretly taken over by the dark underground of illegal and corrupt leftys. We know the Repubs cannot be wrong. They just can't...well not again ..and again.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Trumpys are all reaching for the next thing to save them. Now the Durham investigation that they touted as blowing the roofs off Biden and the Dems came up flat empty. He found zero evidence . Do you have another one going? The IG report. Nope. They must have been secretly taken over by the dark underground of illegal and corrupt leftys. We know the Repubs cannot be wrong. They just can't...well not again ..and again.

no. we're certain dems wont even vote to even begin impeachment.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Daddyo,

When there is a conflict between the first 2 branches it is resolved in the 3rd.

It may look like republicans don't care but we do. Problem is it also seems that demoncrats are hell bent on removing this president. They have litterally said so. Russia collusion didnt work so now it's this. They went from QPQ to bribery once trump released the transcript. During the Schiff shit show he didnt allow a single republican witness. They didnt allow witnesses with exculpatory information. So we dont blame trump for resisting the witch hunt. I read the transcript and found nothing wrong. You did. Who is right?

The same garbage that are so concerned about this military aid to Ukraine and how desperately needed it was and how lives were at risk lol these same pieces of crap refused to give those damn missiles to ukraine instead giving blankets before trump took office. See I look at all that hypocrisy and I believe they are politically motivated traitors desperate to eliminate his victory in 2020 aka election meddling btw.

So no problem with bidens QPQ but trump fake QPQ turned to bribery is a threat to the republic. It's fake outrage from sacks of human dung in and all out attempt to turn an election to their favor. The very charge they level on trump.

There is NOTHING professional about Schiff. He is a traitor attempting to manipulate the 2020 election. ImO worst than foreign interference is domestic.

Again you have 2 parties involve in this "bribery" one has said he felt no pressure and didnt even know the missiles were being held up. A crime with no victim? Tough to bribe if they dont know the consequences for NOT complying.

The president has a duty via treaty with Ukraine to investigate corruption between us officials and Ukraine. He is the chief the head honcho. He is well within his rights to inquire and ask for assistance in this matter. Remember that biden admitted on video his crime so it really wasn't a bombshell expose game changer. Biden aka the nibble can't remember yesterday and trump needed no help since he admitted to the QPQ on film.

It is not OK to solicit foreign intervention in our domestic elections. Trump did it 3X. It is a pattern of abuse. He also has a pattern of obstructing Justice and no we have not forgotten about the instances Mueller identified and no they have not gone away. Trump is just adding more reasons to impeach. Intimidating witnesses too.

Bottom line if Obama did this you'd be demanding impeachment. In 2014 33% of America wanted to impeach Obama for nothing. That's the same 30% that strongly favors Trump. So it's really only another 13% who somewhat favor Trump to add up to his whole pitiful 43% of support.

Any other President had this economy he would be polling at 70% but Trump is so wrong for the office he can't even get 50% in the RCP average. Now he screwed up big time and he needs to go.

Zelenski said no pressure because he is in great fear of losing US support. He cannot cross the President. No Republican can say a cross word because they are all in constant fear of being tweet-slapped. That's why Republicans are afraid to step our of line, unable to express their true feelings on the matter.

Executive privilege does not mean the President is above the law. He must answer for his misconduct under oath and stop obstructing the key witnesses. We need to hear under oath from Trump (And he can be compelled to testify as this is not a normal crime. We are not talking about locking him up, just firing him.) and we need to hear from McGahn, Giuliani, Mulvaney, Pompeo, Perry, Barr, Nunes, Pence, and the OMB, all under oath.

Republicans are afraid to hear from Trump under oath. They are fine with being lied to.

[rjhenn]

Since the russians aided trump so massively in the 2016 election it should be quite easy for you to give just a couple examples of how they did it. You will of course ignore this question.

I find it hard to believe that you will find collusion when 20 rabid liberal trump hating lawyers couldn't after 2 years 20 plus million AND all the investigatory tools of government. But I'll wait in anticipation anyway just for you.

I'll ask one more question seldomely answered by you liberals. Based on campaign rhetoric which candidates agenda was better for Russia?

You are, most likely deliberately, massively ignorant. An army of Russian bots posted waves of disinformation on social media in support of Trump. And collusion by itself is not criminal. Mueller documented plenty of collusion, just nothing that amounted to criminal conspiracy. Ignoring meaningless campaign rhetoric, it was clearly Trump, being deeply in debt to both Russian banks and Russian organized crime, who was better for Russia. Probably why he still, despite having promised to multiple times, vehemently resists releasing his tax returns. But you are clearly a dedicated Trump cultist, deep in TDS, so reality will make no impression on you.

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[rjhenn]

You have it worst than most lol.

Meaning that I am far more connected to reality than any Trump cultist. And definitely more than you are.

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[rjhenn]

Been like that for years. They also take the worst possible assumed intent with the republican and give the demoncrat the most positive assumed intent. It's so sad its funny.

More of the usual projection.

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[rjhenn]

While I do now believe trump to be the best president in my lifetime it wasn't always like that. I was worried in the beginning. I only voted for him because hillary was so evil. President Trump (wow that sounds so sweet) has earned my support.

We go back and forth about who Russia supported or who they wanted as president but one thing proves it. One candidate would have been great for Russia and the other has been horrible for them. Those are fact plain to all willing to look. Oil based economies dont want more oil on the market. Our enemies dont want a stronger better military. Even Obama your savior refused to give Ukraine javeline missiles. Hillary would not have. Trump did. No way Russia wanted trump.

Your rebuttal will include something to the affect that trump is so corrupt it wouldn't matter about the above. Horseshit prove it. Give evidence of it or you are wrong. Your pushing the narrative doesn't make it fact.

You are deep in TDS. You will never admit that Trump is anything other than your perfect Messiah. You treasure your degree from TrumpU. You are the one pushing a narrative and wishing that it was reality.

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