How Disgusting Are Big Corporations?

[Into the Night]

sometimes they do. stop being such a corporate cheerleader. fascism is a thing.

Non-sequitur fallacy. Corporations are not governments.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Non-sequitur fallacy. Corporations are not governments.

nobody said corporations are government, you willfully obtuse tool.

[gfm7175]

there's no paradox.

Denying the existence of a paradox does not make it go away. It must be cleared.

[gfm7175]

You can't clear a paradox by denying it. You must choose one and only one of the conflicting arguments and utterly discard the other. Arguing both sides of a paradox is irrational.

I do not know what paradox he is referring to, but he's pretty good at catching them.

He has argued all of the following simultaneously:

** Corporations are not people.
** Corporations have the ability to apologize.
** Corporations are a pseudo human legal structure.
** Corporations are organizations of people. (this one was actually your argument, but he accepted your argument as true)

**** As an added bonus, he also argued that organizations of people are not people. ****


I'm surely missing others, as I didn't closely read through the past discussion, but this is sufficient enough to make the point. He has yet to clear any of this up...

[gfm7175]

sometimes they do. stop being such a corporate cheerleader.

You seem to hold a huge disdain for corporations.

fascism is a thing.

Correct. Things are things.

[Ralph]

Let us take a moment to recap what big corporations have done for us, shall we?

I can think of a few examples. I'm sure you can add more.

Basically, the decision-making is all about increasing profits; all else takes on far less priority. And how is that working out for us?

PG&E, the same company that gave us drinking water laced with Hexavalent Chromium:

"From 1952 to 1966, Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) dumped about 370 million gallons of chromium-tainted wastewater into unlined wastewater spreading ponds around the town of Hinkley, California, located in the Mojave Desert (about 120 miles north-northeast of Los Angeles).[1][2]

PG&E used chromium 6, or hexavalent chromium (a cheap and efficient rust suppressor), in its compressor station for natural-gas transmission pipelines.[1]:[3] Hexavalent-chromium compounds are genotoxic carcinogens.

In 1993, legal clerk Erin Brockovich began an investigation into the health impacts of the contamination. A class-action lawsuit about the contamination was settled in 1996 for $333 million, the largest settlement of a direct-action lawsuit in U.S. history. In 2008, PG&E settled the last of the cases involved with the Hinkley claims. Since then, the town's population has dwindled to the point that in 2016 The New York Times described Hinkley as having slowly become a ghost town.[4][5] " (wiki)

That same company is now in big trouble for PG&E wild fires being caused by it's equipment, which is not made to resist the normal winds of the dry season in the tinder-box of California.

Boeing made decisions which resulted in two 737MAX airliner crashes which killed 300 people. This is the same company which narrowly averted loss of life due to 787 battery fires. The rush to profits prevented safe measures.

Volkswagon decided emissions regulations were just too onerous to allow enough profits, so they cheated the entire world out of cleaner air for more money.

Dupont killed more people than 911 in India with a gas leak from a pesticide plant. Safety regulations were bypassed to save money.

Bayer-Monsanto decided to sell the same chemicals used in Agent Orange for domestic weed control. Who could possibly have predicted that would not end well? They just settled a huge lawsuit after a worker using their product got cancer. That was only one case, with others sure to follow. btw, they also use the same thing on our food crops. Yummy!

Amazon placed ambulances outside it's warehouse because there was no air conditioning, and the inside temperatures soared as high as 115 degrees, but workers there were not allowed to slow down or take a break. Also, if any dropped and had to be stretchered off, more workers were on call and waiting to take their place. Anyone who refused lost their job. The owner of Amazon is the third richest man in the world.

The Koch Brothers corporation knew there was lots of money to be made in the fossil fuel industry if only the public sentiment did not embrace a mass movement toward the green movement. So they embarked on a very effective mass PR effort to cloud the debate over climate change.

Perdue Pharma decided to become a 'legal' drug pusher. They heavily marketed oxycontin and other pain medications, which resulted in getting a lot of people addicted, leading to destroyed lives, families and fortunes. But the Sackler family got incredibly rich.

ENRON corporation, along with Arthur Anderson Accounting, pulled off a mass deception which made it's stock appear to be a really good deal. Many Americans bought in. They got ripped off, the books were cooked and most investors lost nearly everything.

The Tobacco Industry marketed cigarettes to children. Get 'em hooked while they are young and you have a customer for life. Well, as long as that life lasts.

The Auto Industry resisted installing seat belts and other safety related measures. Ralph Nader had to shame them into it. Safety improved.

The White Star Line rushed the completion of the Titanic in a bid to have the fastest most luxurious 'unsinkable' ships on the seas. We know how that ended. Speaking of a mighty ship sinking,

The Trump Organization defrauded 'students' of Trump University, promising them the secrets of wealth. The lesson they got instead was that the wealthy get that way by extracting wealth from the non-wealthy, any way they can. Lying is just as good a method as any. Trump settled for $25 Million to avoid the bad PR of a scandalous well publicized court trial. This was no one-time slip up. Instead, this was indicative of business as usual for that organization, with MANY such digressions having come to light since Trump took such a high-profile position as President of the USA.

I could go on and on. I'm sure you can add more to this brief list. The bottom line is we cannot trust big corporations to have our better interest in mind as they pursue more profits. We must have a powerful government with strong regulations to protect ourselves and the planet from this institutionalized greed.

Anybody who thinks government should just 'get out of the way' and let capitalism deliver for us? We should be asking them exactly WHAT they expect capitalism to deliver!

Capitalism is a way for people with capital to get rich. That's it. Capitalism does not provide for our needs and does not have our backs. Instead, we have to WATCH our backs with capitalism around.

Now, I am not saying we should get rid of capitalism. Conservatives should be sure to ignore my words here. We do not have to choose between capitalism and socialism. We need capitalism for all the good things it produces. Products, services, reasonable profits - these are good things! But capitalism has no reason to take care of people in need. That's why we have socialism. So we can 'Promote the General Welfare,' and 'Promote Domestic Tranquility.'

Our challenge is not to choose between capitalism and socialism. It is to strike the correct balance between the two. (Conservatives should completely ignore that and continue to argue as if it is a choice and we can only have one system.) Admitting reality is not conservative's strong suit.

I think the only BIG CORPORATION that is disgusting is....THE FEDEAL GOVERNMENT. It takes and steals everything it possess, it earns nothing IT PRODUCES nothing but generational poverty.

[Into the Night]

nobody said corporations are government, you willfully obtuse tool.

You did. Do you wish to retract your statement, or do you wish to become irrational and argue both sides of your paradox?

[Into the Night]

He has argued all of the following simultaneously:

** Corporations are not people.
** Corporations have the ability to apologize.
** Corporations are a pseudo human legal structure.
** Corporations are organizations of people. (this one was actually your argument, but he accepted your argument as true)

**** As an added bonus, he also argued that organizations of people are not people. ****


I'm surely missing others, as I didn't closely read through the past discussion, but this is sufficient enough to make the point. He has yet to clear any of this up...

Since he tried this paradox on me also, I will assume he wants to be irrational and argue both sides of his paradox.

[gfm7175]

Since he tried this paradox on me also, I will assume he wants to be irrational and argue both sides of his paradox.

That's what he has chosen to do so far, anyway.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

You did. Do you wish to retract your statement, or do you wish to become irrational and argue both sides of your paradox?

you're being an idiot now.

[Into the Night]

you're being an idiot now.

No. It is you. Arguing both sides of a paradox is irrational.

[PoliTalker]

Corporation: A tool of the rich whose goal is to eliminate as many jobs as possible, and to reduce the requirements of the remaining jobs as low as possible so that workers can be paid as little as possible, while charging customers as much as possible, for the purpose of making as much money as possible for the owners and investors, ie, the rich.

Any product or service provided during the extraction of wealth from society is purely coincidental.