Democratic Debate

[TTQ64]

[QUOTE=Althea;3303404]Whereas I don't agree with the free tuition, and debt forgiveness, I agree with the other issues on that list. The Stimulus went a long way toward expanding child care, which allowed lower income people to go out and work.

In our changing economy, we should be more focused on training service related workers, than we are on paying for a liberal arts degree for all who want one.

You seem pretty reasonable at times.

Don't fall for this ignorant right wing talking point.

Do you know the origin of where this talking point comes from? It's because it has the word LIBERAL in it. The racist right demonized this degree not only because of the word liberal but they think the arts is nothing more than hippy and homos...………..

It's when good people such as yourself fall for this type of demonization we can't move forward.

Oh and why are you against free tuitition and debt forgiveness?

[Bigdog]

I'm listening to you say it's racist. You've explained how. So the next step is...how do we address the systemic inequalities in Social Security? That's where you stop because you have no ideas.

According to White liberals like you, it's not sexist and racist.

One size fits all

[LV426]

So the first step in that discussion would be to explain the absurd charge that there is

BigDog already did that. Follow the thread.

[LV426]

According to White liberals like you, it's not sexist and racist.

You keep wanting to avoid the discussion. Let's say your charge is right, that it is sexist and racist...how do you solve for that? This is the part where you clam up because you haven't given it any thought.

[Getin the ring]

You just said it was racist.

Oy vey.

I don't think I did, did I?

maybe bigdog did

Social security is as fair as it can possibly be.
Everyone is on the same timeline, and the amount you get is based on the amount you paid in

what might be unfair, in fact what IS unfair is the means at which people are allowed to get their hands on it early

[TTQ64]

Not everything is free in liberal areas. And there's crushing poverty in red rural America. So what's your response to that?

red states arrest their homeless.

[TOP]

Right, but in the context of what was being discussed.

We're talking about people working and getting perks....

[anatta]

Free of those burdens? For me, it would be nothing but added burden. I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's healthcare, someone else's schooling, someone else's childcare, someone else's student loan debt... etc... Those people brought those things upon themselves; they should have to face the consequences.

exactly. you don't want student debt work hard for a scholarship,or find a trade ( much better then liberal arts)
free college just means people will go to avoid work ( in some cases) and get free subsidies

why in the hell should we pay for other kids babysitting? again dont have kids or acquire debt you can't afford

[TTQ64]

I think debt forgiveness is merited. My generation basically went to college for almost next-to-nothing. University of California at the time was about 800 bucks tuition and fees for the whole quarter. Peanuts to pay for a top tier public university.

The millenials are being saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in debt - and thus a serf-like indentured servitude to debt for years on end. That is something us old farts did not have to deal with.

Subsidized or free college, university, or trade school makes eminent sense to me, for a civilized 21st century nation.

Standing Ovation!

[Bigdog]

You keep wanting to avoid the discussion. Let's say your charge is right, that it is sexist and racist...how do you solve for that? This is the part where you clam up because you haven't given it any thought.

If I'm right? ... White female life expectancy is far greater than Black male life expectancy.

[USFREEDOM911]

Phoenix is holding a job fair today and recruiting for trade workers.

[PoliTalker]

Hello gfm7175,

No they won't.

Here's the logic: Generous social programs aimed at increasing the number of well educated people in our society will lead to a larger GDP, because dumb people who don't know what they are doing generally do NOT start companies which go on to employ millions of Americans with well paying great jobs which have excellent benefits. Nope. That takes smart people. Logically, the more smart people we have, the more likely this activity is to exist. Hence, if we increase the number of smart people in the country we will have more well paying great jobs which have excellent benefits.

It's not like Zuckerberg started FaceBook because he was stuck in a dead-end job and saddled with crushing debt. No. He was in college.

When you get a lot of people working at higher paying jobs, they pay more in taxes. Paying more taxes generates more revenue, which will pay for the programs. So, yes, they WILL pay for themselves.

And it is the same with free day-care. You free more people up to work more hours, they generate more revenue.

It's all straight up logic. QED.

Free of those burdens? For me, it would be nothing but added burden. I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's healthcare, someone else's schooling, someone else's childcare, someone else's student loan debt... etc...

Anyone who has enough wealth to be concerned that this is going to amount to a significant decrease in lifestyle to pay for this, has the kind of problems that the most Americans WISH they had. What. Will there be a need to have to get a smaller yacht? Will the choice have to be a USED one, instead of a brand new custom made model? Oh, the horrors. Imagine what the neighbors might say, peering out the window of their mansion (with a telescope because the waterfront houses are so far distant from one another.)

Nobody is asking you to pay for any specific program. You just pay your taxes, which, btw, we are going to have to raise to pay for that failed tax cut for the rich, which did NOT generate enough revenue to pay for itself, and has resulted in a trillion dollar deficit, no thank you.

No, your taxes go to the government. The government decides what to do with the revenue. The government is not charged with promoting your specific welfare, sir. No, indeed not. Think not of yourself. Think of the larger thing than oneself. Think of the entire United States. That's what government is for. The government, my friend, is charged with promoting the GENERAL welfare.

Those people brought those things upon themselves; they should have to face the consequences.

Lucky for all those really rich people with great backgrounds for being born into such fortunate circumstances. There, but for the sheer chance of luck, might be their cruel fate, a fate known by far more people than the fortunate ones who luck out in life's great lottery of just which family and age one gets born into on this great ride called Earth. Oh, aren't they ever so lucky. To be so over-achieving in life and to also be free of any calling to help the less fortunate in any small or insignificant way at all.

Because you know, really? The amount of taxation currently taken from the rich, if they pay anything at all, is like a single insect landing on an immense feast for 40, and the hostess proclaiming that 'Everything is RUINED!'

I mean, really? It's next to nothing. Swish the bugger away, remove the portion of food where it lighted, and carry on with a glorious feast!

The rich do not have their lifestyle impacted one iota by taxing!

Your claims of 'taxing hardship' are falling upon quite deaf ears, I assure you.

The only "oligarchy" is the one currently ruling over Kaliphornia. And look at the complete shithole that chunk of land is becoming... I currently advocate for "kicking them out of the Union" (but more technically speaking, they have already effectively seceded from it) and building a wall around their border as well.

Last time I checked, California pays more to the Federal Government than it takes in benefits. The USA would lose revenue if California left. Everybody who lives in California lives there by choice, right? Who in California is not free to move to any other state? They run their own State, vote in their own representatives and leaders, vote their own referendums in public votes. They must LIKE what they've done or they would LEAVE. It's not like it's the only place to live in this country. And nobody who is a patriot to the United States advocates for ANY secession of ANY of the 50 States. United we stand.

[anatta]

I think debt forgiveness is merited. My generation basically went to college for almost next-to-nothing. University of California at the time was about 800 bucks tuition and fees for the whole quarter. Peanuts to pay for a top tier public university.

The millenials are being saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in debt - and thus a serf-like indentured servitude to debt for years on end. That is something us old farts did not have to deal with.

Subsidized or free college, university, or trade school makes eminent sense to me, for a civilized 21st century nation.

my parents put money aside.. I worked part time. there were still merit grants and hardship grants.
College is not a human right, or an entitlement. we can't afford it anyways.

One reason college costs so much is the feds keep handing out more and more cash -why are the universities so rich?
Think cost control methods instead.

[Bigdog]

exactly. you don't want student debt work hard for a scholarship,or find a trade ( much better then liberal arts)
free college just means people will go to avoid work ( in some cases) and get free subsidies

why in the hell should we pay for other kids babysitting? again dont have kids or acquire debt you can't afford

And the ease of getting a student loan has caused college education costs to skyrocket at a rate 400% greater than the rate of inflation.

[archives]

exactly. you don't want student debt work hard for a scholarship,or find a trade ( much better then liberal arts)
free college just means people will go to avoid work ( in some cases) and get free subsidies

why in the hell should we pay for other kids babysitting? again dont have kids or acquire debt you can't afford

Speaking of subsidies, why do we give billions of dollars to corporations, corporate farms, oil companies, etc.?

I do believe that Bernie and the rest feel that these type subsidies should go to the American public by way of services rather than private interests