Homage to the true European explorers of America

[ThatOwlWoman]

I really appreciate it when true knowledge and expertise shows up on a thread.

As far as I can tell, jpp dot com is mostly known for arm-waving, bullsh*ting, and posturing by wannabe armchair experts!

I suppose in its cute and childish way, the blustering and bullshitting is showing expertise as well. lol

[Cypress]

They were good at keeping secrets. Or, they had an ineffective PR team.

I suspect the Vikings ultimately decided that North America was not going to be an economic resource they could leverage.

The Vikings had a really hard time making Greenland economically viable for trade, given the ship and navigation technology available in the 12th century. North America would be a long shot. North America must have ultimately appeared to them to be a futile economic venture, especially in the face of the purported hostility and attacks by the Skraelings

[Judy Johnstone]

The indigenous ppl much preferred the French trappers because they understood the land and forests like they did. Many of the trappers married native women as well. The French govt. looked at the natives as a resource to gain access to the land and its resources, and eventually as an ally against the British and the Americans. The record of the relationship between the French and the First Nations ppl of Canada is not a happy one.

Native Americans were fucked as soon as Europeans knew there was a continent to loot!

[ThatOwlWoman]

Native Americans were fucked as soon as Europeans knew there was a continent to loot!

Two continents to be exact.

[Mott the Hoople]

Was the French attitude toward the Native American population motivated by benevolence or because they knew they could use them, they didn't have a lot of allies available in an English dominated frontier

Well it was certainly motivated by self interest. The French were more interested in trading than settling and farming thus they had little interest in owning the land.

[Cypress]

Well it was certainly motivated by self interest. The French were more interested in trading than settling and farming thus they had little interest in owning the land.

I doubt hardly any Americans know much about Samuel de Champlain, the father of New France, founder of Quebec, and an explorer, diplomat, soldier, sailor, and navigator almost without peer in the 17th century. Canadians hold him the the utmost esteem.

According to these sources, Champlain attempted to build trust and establish relations with native leaders in a way that was uncommon among European colonizers.

"Champlain learned that in order to be accepted and taken on exploring trips, close personal relations and trust had to be built with Native leaders.”

– Conrad Heidenreich, “The Beginnings of French Exploration out of the St. Lawrence Valley: Motives, Methods, and Changing Attitudes towards Native People,” 2001


“He was the first European to clearly see and recommend that, in order to explore and live in Canada, certain adaptations had to take place to the Native presence and the physical environment. The way to overcome physical obstacles to exploration was to become accepted by the Native people and learn to proceed with their help.”

– Conrad Heidenreich, “The Beginnings of French Exploration out of the St. Lawrence Valley: Motives, Methods, and Changing Attitudes towards Native People,” 2001

[archives]

Well it was certainly motivated by self interest. The French were more interested in trading than settling and farming thus they had little interest in owning the land.

That in itself, no acknowledgement of private property, would have made it easier for the French, I believe that was a concept the Native Americans didn't understand

Now a second question, in your view, what led to the downfall of the Iroquois confederation? I always heard, or was taught anyways, that when they split sides or remained neutral in the American Revolution it sealed their doom. Correct?

[archives]

I doubt hardly any Americans know much about Samuel de Champlain, the father of New France, founder of Quebec, and an explorer, diplomat, soldier, sailor, and navigator almost without peer in the 17th century. Canadians hold him the the utmost esteem.

According to these sources, Champlain attempted to build trust and establish relations with native leaders in a way that was uncommon among European colonizers.

Lake Champlain, Fort Ticonderoga, great place to visit, but one of the wackiest forts ever constructed, the guns always seemed to be pointed the wrong way

[Mott the Hoople]

That in itself, no acknowledgement of private property, would have made it easier for the French, I believe that was a concept the Native Americans didn't understand

Now a second question, in your view, what led to the downfall of the Iroquois confederation? I always heard, or was taught anyways, that when they split sides or remained neutral in the American Revolution it sealed their doom. Correct?

The didn’t split sides during the American revolution. They changed sides from the French to the British, thanks to the work of Sir William Johnson. That was during the Seven Years war. Both the French and British used the Iroquois in their internecine wars and it did hurt the league as the constant fighting reduced their numbers.

What doomed the Iroquois league was that during the Revolutionary War they remained loyal to the British.

So to eliminate the Iroquois as a military threat Gen. Washington ordered Gen Sullivan into Western New York with orders to commit a scorched earth war against the Iroquois with orders to kill all Iroquois, men, women, children and to destroy their homes, villages, farms, crops and food supplies. In short genocide.

Gen. Sullivan succeeded admirably and the Iroquois League was never again a factor in our frontier history.

[Cypress]

The didn’t split sides during the American revolution. They changed sides from the French to the British, thanks to the work of Sir William Johnson. That was during the Seven Years war. Both the French and British used the Iroquois in their internecine wars and it did hurt the league as the constant fighting reduced their numbers.

What doomed the Iroquois league was that during the Revolutionary War they remained loyal to the British.

So to eliminate the Iroquois as a military threat Gen. Washington ordered Gen Sullivan into Western New York with orders to commit a scorched earth war against the Iroquois with orders to kill all Iroquois, men, women, children and to destroy their homes, villages, farms, crops and food supplies. In short genocide.

Gen. Sullivan succeeded admirably and the Iroquois League was never again a factor in our frontier history.

On jpp dot com one normally has to wade through a vast surplus of gossip, cursing, lying, slandering, mental mediocrity, and barely legible blather.

So this one was a gem. Nice work, chap!

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The vikings do mention a place besides newfoundland and Greenland in their texts, don't remember the name but it's often thought to be Baffin Island. Baffin Island is unbelievably inhospitable though.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I suspect the Vikings ultimately decided that North America was not going to be an economic resource they could leverage.

The Vikings had a really hard time making Greenland economically viable for trade, given the ship and navigation technology available in the 12th century. North America would be a long shot. North America must have ultimately appeared to them to be a futile economic venture, especially in the face of the purported hostility and attacks by the Skraelings

The settlements were established in the medieval warm period when there was more green in places like baffin Island and Greenland. With the 14th century the environment turned and the glaciers advanced. Eventually everyone in the Greenland colony died out (or perhaps interbred or were conquered with the then advancing Inuit) and it stopped sending messages to Iceland in the early 15th century. The Baffin Island colony probably died our much sooner because baffin Island is much worse land even than Greenland. Newfoundland is hospitable of course but there's a lot of competition there that probably wiped the vikings our.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The didn’t split sides during the American revolution. They changed sides from the French to the British, thanks to the work of Sir William Johnson. That was during the Seven Years war. Both the French and British used the Iroquois in their internecine wars and it did hurt the league as the constant fighting reduced their numbers.

What doomed the Iroquois league was that during the Revolutionary War they remained loyal to the British.

So to eliminate the Iroquois as a military threat Gen. Washington ordered Gen Sullivan into Western New York with orders to commit a scorched earth war against the Iroquois with orders to kill all Iroquois, men, women, children and to destroy their homes, villages, farms, crops and food supplies. In short genocide.

Gen. Sullivan succeeded admirably and the Iroquois League was never again a factor in our frontier history.

They would have killed them no matter who they sided with.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Helluland is the viking territory often thought to be Baffin Island.

[StoneByStone]

L'Anse aux Meadows likely is not the only place the Vikings visited in North America.
It is increasingly certain that within the decade more widespread evidence of Viking exploration in North America will be found.

Putting Christoper Columbus in his place as a second-rate European explorer.

Rus!

I respect the Vikings for being great explorers, but come on. Columbus' discovery had the way bigger impact on world history.