Rand Paul "The Case Against Socialism"

[dukkha]

Senator Rand Paul and his wife Kelley promoted their new book, “The Case Against Socialism,” at an event hosted by Columbia University Libertarians and Colloquia Wednesday evening. Almost 300 students attended the event, where the Pauls argued that socialism is fundamentally harmful to society, claiming that its recent popularization by progressive political figures such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would fade.

Former Fox News anchor Kimberly Guilfoyle introduced the Pauls at the event sponsored by Turning Point USA, a nonprofit organization that seeks to “identify, educate, train, and organize students to promote the principles of freedom, free markets, and limited government.”

During his talk, Paul emphasized that the current prominence of socialism in political discussions, especially among younger populations within the U.S., does not equate with moral righteousness. He cited historical leaders, such as Adolf Hilter, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong, as examples of corrupt socialist leaders responsible for the death of millions. Paul claimed that his underlying disdain for socialism is due to its disparate policies, which he viewed as treating people unequally.

“We have this belief in our country … that is equal protection under the law. That the law should treat everybody the same, no matter who you are,” Paul said. “And yet realize that if you have complete socialism and you have equal outcome for everyone, meaning you have the government equalize everyone, the problem is that we’re not equal.”

Rand and Kelley looked to Scandinavian countries to demonstrate what they consider to be downfalls of so-called “socialist” nations.

“They do have a huge welfare safety net, and for them it’s not really welfare because everyone uses it,” Kelley said. “They have free college and free healthcare, but nothing is really free. There is an enormous burden on the middle class.”

Kelley continued, noting that the middle class faces a 60 percent tax on income and a 25 percent value-added tax on all sales transactions to allow for the Scandinavian social safety net, which she claims results in low-income Scandinavians paying a higher tax rate than the rich.

In reality, Scandinavian countries have a progressive income tax system, though the various rates at which incomes are taxed are all relatively similar and all very high compared to the U.S.’s rates.

Further, Paul added that he disagreed with the self-identification of politicians such as Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez as democratic socialists, instead claiming they’re more akin to ‘democratic welfarists.’ Paul distinguished that ‘democratic welfarist states,’ such as Scandinavian countries, want to provide a large social safety net while democratic socialists advocate for a more authoritarian government.

Ultimately, according to Paul, the democratic socialists’ focus on income inequality through the lens of wealth distribution overshadows the emphasis on viable standards of living, which he argued could be achieved in every economic context.

“It really shouldn’t be about how rich people are. You really shouldn’t care about what other people make. It’s about what you make,” Paul said. “There’s a problem if you’re obsessed with what everybody makes.”

When Paul polled the audience at the beginning of the event to determine who in the audience viewed socialism favorably and who viewed socialism negatively, both stood about equal. Some liberal students attended to hear the perspective of the other side and better their own understanding of issues

In his speech, Paul ended by criticizing both establishment political parties as too institutional to create the limited government that he wants.

“When you go to the voting booth, vote for none of the above. Really, it’s both parties’ fault—Republican and Democrats are equally guilty on the debt. The Republicans want unlimited military spending. The Democrats want unlimited welfare spending, and they have to get together if they want more spending they get together with the other side and vote for more spending for everything.”
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/ne...-libertarians/

[Micawber]

Rand Paul seems like an asshole with a lot of untenable opinions. I think he wants to fill the Newt Gingrich space
for a right wing pseudo intellectual blowhard.

[dukkha]

Rand Paul seems like an asshole with a lot of untenable opinions. I think he wants to fill the Newt Gingrich space
for a right wing pseudo intellectual blowhard.

or you could read and comment on the OP

[StoneByStone]

The burden isn't on the middle-class, the burden is on the rich. The middle-class actually lives better in the Nordic countries and German Sprachraum than they do here.

[anonymoose]

or you could read and comment on the OP

No, I don't think that's possible.

[dukkha]

The burden isn't on the middle-class, the burden is on the rich. The middle-class actually lives better in the Nordic countries and German Sprachraum than they do here.

the countries all all different. Norway is a petro-state. Denmark resists the label of Socialism.

The tax rates are so high they destroy risk taking ( entrepreneurs ) 60% income tax and 25% sales tax
on middle class

[Cypress]

Rand Paul is welcome to cite an example of a successful modern nation state which employs the tenets of rightwing libertarian Austrian school of economics.

I can name examples of successful hybrid democratic socialist social welfare states -Norway, Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany,et al.

[StoneByStone]

the countries all all different. Norway is a petro-state. Denmark resists the label of Socialism.

Europe doesn't use the word "Socialist" but what most of those countries have is what Americans would call Democratic Socialism. I more accurate label would be Social Democracy, but it's just semantics.

The tax rates are so high they destroy risk taking ( entrepreneurs ) 60% income tax and 25% sales tax
on middle class

But they haven't destroyed risk-taking. In fact, because of the safety net and more even playing field, small businesses and innovators do better in Europe.

[canceled.2021.2]

The burden isn't on the middle-class, the burden is on the rich. The middle-class actually lives better in the Nordic countries and German Sprachraum than they do here.

Why haven’t you moved there?

[Cinnabar]

Rand Paul is welcome to cite an example of a successful modern nation state which employs the tenets of rightwing libertarian Austrian school of economics.

I can name examples of successful hybrid democratic socialist social welfare states -Norway, Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany,et al.

There are none and is he is a FOS phony and a wimp and a Trump bootlicker who gets voted in by a puny amount of people who make up his constituency. This tool with the skinned poodle on his head wanted to allow the 911 first responders to be hung out to dry. Great to see him get put in his place by a woman and laughed at by the audience.

[StoneByStone]

Why haven’t you moved there?

I think there is still hope for America.
Why haven't you moved to Saudi Arabia, since you like Fascism?

[Cypress]

There are none and is he is a FOS phony and a wimp and a Trump bootlicker who gets voted in by a puny amount of people who make up his constituency. This tool with the skinned poodle on his head wanted to allow the 911 first responders to be hung out to dry. Great to see him get put in his place by a woman and laughed at by the audience.

I just think if one is going to thump their chest about the alleged superiority of a system rightwing libertarian Austrian school of economics, they should actually be able to point to an example of a major nation-state which successfully employs such a system

[Cinnabar]

I just think if one is going to thump their chest about the alleged superiority of a system rightwing libertarian Austrian school of economics, they should actually be able to point to an example of a major nation-state which successfully employs such a system

Or go found one. I cannot stand Rand Paul.

[dukkha]

Rand Paul is welcome to cite an example of a successful modern nation state which employs the tenets of rightwing libertarian Austrian school of economics.

I can name examples of successful hybrid democratic socialist social welfare states -Norway, Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany,et al.

The debate is socialism vs. capitalism. Libertarianism isn't a school of economics - it's employs capitalism.

I am a big time libertarian. Government inevitably breeds corrupt officials,and the more power they have the more it becomes corrupt. The apparatchiks are the best example, but mid level official in any corrupted state get the way from power over money and resources.

So th power has to be not in government, with the exceptions of limited needs , but in the people.
If you want to see the best example of capitalism creating wealth - even unequal wealth, but wealthy society look at the USA.
Nobody come near us except China.
And China got that way because of corruption/theft by the west and it's enablers

[dukkha]

Europe doesn't use the word "Socialist" but what most of those countries have is what Americans would call Democratic Socialism. I more accurate label would be Social Democracy, but it's just semantics.

Our government is basically the same. the difference is we still have low enough taxes and regs aren't so stupifying . that most small business can start up with Legal-Zoom and an accountant.
Some don't even need an accountant with tax simplification

But they haven't destroyed risk-taking. In fact, because of the safety net and more even playing field, small businesses and innovators do better in Europe.

they do not. Small business are heavily regulated and taxed They survive but the chances to grow are limited by excessive reg and taxes