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Thread: Capitalism only works with honesty and integrity... otherwise only the corrupt rise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    when has an unfettered capitalist nation ever worked as you claim it will idiot?
    Capitalism is not a nation. Capitalism is an economic system. It has worked to build the city out of the wilderness. It has worked to build the computer you are using right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    what you defend has never existed for good reasons shit brick
    It does exist. Even now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Capitalism is not a nation. Capitalism is an economic system. It has worked to build the city out of the wilderness. It has worked to build the computer you are using right now.

    It does exist. Even now.
    and it has been unfettered when in history?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Capitalism is not a nation. Capitalism is an economic system. It has worked to build the city out of the wilderness. It has worked to build the computer you are using right now.

    It does exist. Even now.
    Is America a capitalist nation?

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    Capitalism has to work for everybody, or it is a failure!

    If Capitalism only works for those who own and manage business, why would the working man or consumer, give one squirt of runny crap about capitalism?

    An elected Congress can create a standard for business, that requires Business to follow, in order to legally conduct business here in the USA, in the way they pay taxes, collect taxes, conduct hiring practices, and pay fair wages that keep up with inflation and company profits.

    Just as there are standards for workers such as having a SS card, Green Card, Current Identification, being able to pass drug tests, providing a background check, or having a college degree, or High School degree.

    Rules are not just for the workers- Companies already have to follow certain rules set up by Congress in order to legitimately be called a legal business.

    If the president can charge companies tariffs, Congress can surely set some business standards as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    and it has been unfettered when in history?
    Repetitious question that has already been answered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    you want the USA to deregulate all capitalism


    when has that ever been a good thing for a nation to do?

    cite some history
    There are no regulations on capitalism. Capitalism simply is. All regulations do is reduce capitalism, often in favor of socialism.

    Already cited. Repetitious question already answered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    Give an example of a time when unregulated capitalism worked as you claimed?
    Repetitous question already answered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf_Twitler View Post
    Capitalism has to work for everybody, or it is a failure!

    If Capitalism only works for those who own and manage business, why would the working man or consumer, give one squirt of runny crap about capitalism?

    An elected Congress can create a standard for business, that requires Business to follow, in order to legally conduct business here in the USA, in the way they pay taxes, collect taxes, conduct hiring practices, and pay fair wages that keep up with inflation and company profits.

    Just as there are standards for workers such as having a SS card, Green Card, Current Identification, being able to pass drug tests, providing a background check, or having a college degree, or High School degree.

    Rules are not just for the workers- Companies already have to follow certain rules set up by Congress in order to legitimately be called a legal business.

    If the president can charge companies tariffs, Congress can surely set some business standards as well.
    There is a difference between a standard (such as a standard for screw threads) and regulations that curtail and reduce capitalism. No government is required for capitalism.

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    Hello Jarod,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    The beautiful idea of capitalism is that if the government stays out of managing business, needs will be awoken by the market and the most efficient at providing those needs will prosper, and on paper, in theory this is absolutely true.
    No, it isn't. Capitalism absolutely must be well regulated. Government is the only entity that can do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Its really a beautiful thing the idea that left alone the market will sort itself out.
    It's a myth. What will happen is the most powerful and immoral will crush the rest. They can't resist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    It illustrates the hand of God in the equation, things do not need to be managed...
    I don't see God having anything to do with it. We are on our own. Whatever happens to we humans is up to we humans. The market with God's influence and the market without God's influence look exactly the same to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    The problem...

    Human greed that leads to corruption.
    Thank you. That's why there is no such thing as the free market. It must have rules; AND enforcement of those rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    We need a force to counteract the harmful effects of detect, corruption and excessive greed.
    Exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    This idea does not work, when corruption is allowed.
    It will never work because there is always corruption. That's why we need regulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    IN a world where unethical behavior is allowed and hidden from the public, the most corrupt succeeds over and above the best or most efficient. When large corporations collude to fix prices, form monopolies and use tactics such as built in obsolescence the market is left with the most corrupt rising to the top, not the best. When an uneducated public is left with fewer choices in the market, or when they are lied to with marketing tactics the beauty of capitalism is corrupted. This is why American has, in many markets, lost its edge. This is why other systems beat us with superior products. This is why an incompetent trust fund baby is wealthy while the hard working intelligent person born into poverty does not rise to the top.

    The dream of capitalism is sullied by corruption.
    The real beauty of capitalism is the lure of reward for hard work. It is the return on the investment of time, effort and/or wealth. Capitalism is a great motivator. But it is only a motivator for business owners and investors.

    Most workers have a different motivation. They are not motivated by rewards as much as they are motivated by job security. Workers work hard because they don't want to lose their job. They can't afford to suddenly lose income, (most workers live paycheck to paycheck) so they know they have to keep up the pace and not be singled out for lack of performance. Most workers don't have much to look forward to as far as thinking if they work hard they will get raises and be rewarded for their hard work. Oh sure, those with the better jobs hope for that and it might happen, (usually not) but there is a very large segment of workers who have zero hope nor expectation of a raise. They work so they don't get fired. That's their motivation. They know they make their deal on the way in and, once done, they are pretty much stuck with it.

    The corruption aspect of it acts in two ways.

    1. For those who suffer as victims of corruption (most of the populace to one degree or another) it is a definite turn-off for capitalism. Why try to start a small business when the deck is stacked so heavily against you? Big powerful players in the market are ready and willing to crush you. And they have government on their side. They'll eat you up like there's nothing to it, scratch your name off the list of competitors and move quickly on to the next one. Better to greatly reduce your risk and just take a job working for somebody else. That's what most pragmatic people do. And the health care attachment to employment about seals that deal for anybody who is on the fence.

    2. For those who have nefarious tendencies the corruption is seen as a huge opportunity. If you can get some kind of immoral leverage and use it, you can multiply your return. For greedy people, this is irresistible. And that is why we have so much corruption. They just don't love their neighbor. They want to take advantage of their neighbor. They don't care at all what happens to other people.

    Trump is the epitome of that kind of thinking.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    THis is why I believe well regulated Capitalism is best, but the regulation is essential. We need policies to prevent monopolies, criminals and trust fund baby's from running the world.
    And transparency. Integrity would form or manifest in communistic type altruism, an ideal state rather than something which can exist. ( A pipe dream)
    Last I checked there were and never have been Jesus' in this world. Every single person in need in the world can be counted on to lie cheat and steal
    at some time or other in their own best interests if they believe it will go undetected. If one professes to not agree with that, one is naïve beyond belief
    or lying. The transparency provides the likelihood of detection and regulation the mechanism and conditions for it to exist and remedy for breaches.

    As you mentioned monopolies, price fixing, defective dangerous products, pollution, currency manipulation, stock swindling, risky behavior by too huge to fail banks,
    payoff, kickbacks, pay to play, political bribery, all of it will be mitigated, never cured, with transparency and regulation by democratic institutions.
    Without that, we are just a huge mafia run banana republic. And that is what many Repukes either want or don't care about or don't understand.

    That's what Republicans attack all the institutions established to foment it. They want to control shit, form their little in clubs and they sure don't want anyone to see what they are
    up to. The teaming hordes of poor Trumptards are simply ignorant suckers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf_Twitler View Post
    Capitalism has to work for everybody, or it is a failure!

    If Capitalism only works for those who own and manage business, why would the working man or consumer, give one squirt of runny crap about capitalism?

    An elected Congress can create a standard for business, that requires Business to follow, in order to legally conduct business here in the USA, in the way they pay taxes, collect taxes, conduct hiring practices, and pay fair wages that keep up with inflation and company profits.

    Just as there are standards for workers such as having a SS card, Green Card, Current Identification, being able to pass drug tests, providing a background check, or having a college degree, or High School degree.

    Rules are not just for the workers- Companies already have to follow certain rules set up by Congress in order to legitimately be called a legal business.

    If the president can charge companies tariffs, Congress can surely set some business standards as well.
    they want to ride the bike

    but they don't want to have handlebars, brakes and peddles


    they think the bike will do all that its self
    Last edited by evince; 09-18-2019 at 01:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    The beautiful idea of capitalism is that if the government stays out of managing business, needs will be awoken by the market and the most efficient at providing those needs will prosper, and on paper, in theory this is absolutely true. Its really a beautiful thing the idea that left alone the market will sort itself out. It illustrates the hand of God in the equation, things do not need to be managed...
    Any system depending on help from an invisible man in the sky is fucked from day one.

    Capitalism is just like socialism...they're both segments of a balanced economy. No matter who wins in 2020, we're still going to have both public and private sectors, ie, socialism and capitalism.

    What we need to catch up to the civilized world is a more comprehensive public sector and a more regulated private sector--in other words, a little bit more socialism. Otherwise, we're a full blown third world banana republic within a couple more generations at the most.

    Human beings are just one of the more advanced (except for Republicans) species in the animal kingdom. We're not spiritual beings naturally looking to do the right thing. We're not even as good as dogs at doing that.

    We depend on collective needs as a society to be motivated into doing the right thing. In other words, what's bad for the common good must be discouraged on a societal level. Political conservatives and evangelicals do everything in their power to get in the way of that dynamic. That's why intelligent people must prevail over them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Repetitious question that has already been answered.
    and you are so devoted to those answers you refuse to repeat them for me


    I never saw them


    you never gave them

    you cant produce an answer

    You are merely lying

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