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Thread: How Big Dental Money Campaign Contributions / Lobbying Hurt The Economy And Consumers

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    Hello anonymoose,

    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Two states allow hygienists to practice solo without supervision.
    To do so they have to rent or buy an office, it needs the same plumbing as a dentist office, still needs the compressor, same high volume vacuum, same x-ray machines and same sterilization equipment. Still need at least one front desk person and one assistant to sterilize and turn rooms around.
    In short you're not going to get a break on the price of a cleaning, you're just not going to get the exam which almost all ins. pays for 100%. So to get any kind of diagnosis you'll need to go back when the doc is there or go to another office - pretty inconvenient. And then if you need periodontal treatment you have to go to a dentist's office.
    Personally I like the idea of hygienists having their own place. Most are a real pain in the ass to have as an employee and they're not cheap.
    Very few hygienists in those two states try opening their own place because it's just not profitable because of the overhead and start up costs. Most dentists I know break even on hygiene at best.
    Interesting.

    Why would hygienists need an X-Ray machine to clean teeth?

    If hygienists are so expensive to hire, it doesn't follow that they would be unable to afford the start-up costs of starting their own business. It would seem their insurance would be a lot lower than that of a dentist. If all they are doing is cleaning teeth there would not be much to sue over.

    It should also be noted that not everyone has dental insurance. And I would also imagine that for people who do, it would not cover cleanings unless they go to an in network dentist. Probably locked out just like Midwives.

    I suspect that onerous regulations are still placed on them in the two states which would allow them to be in business. And I would further suspect that the source of those regulations would be the lobby arms of professional organizations of dentists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Celticguy,



    Typically it is the same reason conservatives hate the government. They think the government hinders business and blithely applies overwhelming constraints on doing business in the form of bogus regulations.

    The reality is that big business interests force these requirements through rent-seeking in order to drive smaller competitors out of the market.

    The disdain conservatives have for government is misdirected.

    It should actually be leveled at big business and the legalized corruption of rent-seeking.

    They use their funds not to improve their business and expand the pie, but to cut out competition and carve a larger piece of the existing pie for themselves.

    And the real shame is that consumers pay for this in the form of higher prices.
    I had requested specifics.
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    It is owned by the same lobbyists. Durable goods are one of the worst money grubbers. https://www.aarp.org/health/medicare...ent_fraud.html It is a hotbed of fraud that congress has allowed. They give huge donations and have enormous lobbying power. They spend 33 million a year in lobbying.
    How did AARP influence DME specifically ?
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello anonymoose,



    Interesting.

    Why would hygienists need an X-Ray machine to clean teeth?
    Mostly so they can see if there's any subgingival calculus that needs to be removed and to see if there's any bone loss due to perio disease. Also if they see interproximal decay they can refer to a dentist for treatment.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    If hygienists are so expensive to hire, it doesn't follow that they would be unable to afford the start-up costs of starting their own business.
    They make more money working for the dentist. Like I said, hygiene alone is not profitable for most dentists. But it brings in patients, that's why most have one. Otherwise most people would only go in when there's a problem which is usually more expensive to treat.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    It would seem their insurance would be a lot lower than that of a dentist.
    Workman's Comp ins. and business libablity ins. would be the same. Malpractice insurance isn't that much for dentists with a clean record so it's not that much anyway. Actually I'd think a hygienist practicing without supervision of a dentist would have to pay more, but still it's not that big a deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    If all they are doing is cleaning teeth there would not be much to sue over.
    Non-diagnosis of periodontal disease is one of the most frequent dental malpractice suits. If a patient goes in for regular cleanings and ends up losing their teeth from perio they win a small fortune if they haven't been referred to a specialist

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    It should also be noted that not everyone has dental insurance.
    Many dentists give a generous cash discount for cash patients. But you have to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    I suspect that onerous regulations are still placed on them in the two states which would allow them to be in business.
    Why not? There's strict regulations on them in the other 48 states.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    And I would further suspect that the source of those regulations would be the lobby arms of professional organizations of dentists.
    No. The source of regulations are the state boards and all state dental boards have hygienists on them. There's no separate hygiene board that I know of.
    The lobbying arms are the ADA and constituent state and local dental associations which have nothing to do with regulation.

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    There is no shortage of Dentist here (Not even including orthodontist & other specialties) there are over 20 in a five mile radius..

    On intersection there is two in one strip mall & another across the street....

    It is really sad that some in our country have more trust & respect for foreign adversarial leaders than our own loyal opposition.

    “But I suppose the most revolutionary act one can engage in is... to tell the truth.”
    ― Howard Zinn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    There is no shortage of Dentist here (Not even including orthodontist & other specialties) there are over 20 in a five mile radius..

    On intersection there is two in one strip mall & another across the street....
    Neither here. I don't know why it's so hard to get in to dental school these days. Too many, too much student loan debt. I wouldn't do it if it now was free and easy to get into.
    The young ones are miserable here.

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    They pared back admissions years ago as people had healthier teeth. Some went back to get pharmacology degrees due to the glut.
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Neither here. I don't know why it's so hard to get in to dental school these days. Too many, too much student loan debt. I wouldn't do it if it now was free and easy to get into.
    The young ones are miserable here.
    Yes, start up costs are very high... My nephew & his wife are both dentist & they set up shop in the bay area w/ family loans & being able to purchase an established practice.. His sister that graduated a few years later is now working for someone else but will eventually purchase that practice as well......

    They are very fortunate to not be saddled w/ debt after school...

    It is really sad that some in our country have more trust & respect for foreign adversarial leaders than our own loyal opposition.

    “But I suppose the most revolutionary act one can engage in is... to tell the truth.”
    ― Howard Zinn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    They pared back admissions years ago as people had healthier teeth. Some went back to get pharmacology degrees due to the glut.
    Good profession if you like flexibility and the money's not bad. I'd go nuts counting pills all day every day though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    They pared back admissions years ago as people had healthier teeth. Some went back to get pharmacology degrees due to the glut.
    LOL, my nephew left his 2 year in Pharmacology to go into dentistry...

    It is really sad that some in our country have more trust & respect for foreign adversarial leaders than our own loyal opposition.

    “But I suppose the most revolutionary act one can engage in is... to tell the truth.”
    ― Howard Zinn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    LOL, my nephew left his 2 year in Pharmacology to go into dentistry...
    Pendulum swings i guess.
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Pendulum swings i guess.
    Yes... His dad was pushing him to Pharm & his girl friend (before wife) dad was pushing him to Dentistry.. He dropped that cute girl but kept her dads advice & left UOP for SF & met his wife.. All worked out I guess.......

    It is really sad that some in our country have more trust & respect for foreign adversarial leaders than our own loyal opposition.

    “But I suppose the most revolutionary act one can engage in is... to tell the truth.”
    ― Howard Zinn

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