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Thread: Judge blocks Missouri 8-week abortion ban

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    This is one of those laws which was written specifically to get appealed so it can go the SCOTUS and overturn Roe.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I'm sure the state will appeal and move this up the food chain to the US Sct.
    A very small percentage of cases appealed to the Supreme Court are accepted for review--about 10%. I think they would first have to have a Court of Appeals hear their case which is also unlikely to hear the case since the law is already established.

    When there is established law the appellate courts are unlikely to hear another such case unless it has unique circumstances. That means their chance of even getting to the Supreme Court are low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Life is Golden View Post
    Will never be overturned.
    I agree.

    The only possible change is that Roe was based on viability and medical science has made advancement allowing a fetus to survive at a younger age.

    I don't think the SC will ever hear these cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blissful Wizard View Post
    i don't think it ever gets overturned
    I don't think that it will either.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    This is one of those laws which was written specifically to get appealed so it can go the SCOTUS and overturn Roe.
    I agree with that interpretation of its intent.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    A very small percentage of cases appealed to the Supreme Court are accepted for review--about 10%. I think they would first have to have a Court of Appeals hear their case which is also unlikely to hear the case since the law is already established.

    When there is established law the appellate courts are unlikely to hear another such case unless it has unique circumstances. That means their chance of even getting to the Supreme Court are low.
    I hope you're right.
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    Hello ThatOwlWoman,

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I hope you're right.
    Well you know, even if Roe is overturned that does not automatically make abortions illegal. It merely leaves it up to the States.

    So what would happen would be this patchwork of differing laws State by State. Abortion might be illegal in one State, but then it's OK across the State line. Some States are almost there anyway. Several States are down to a handful of remaining abortion clinics. Many people live so far from the last one or two in their State, they are essentially already living in a post-Roe world.

    And the results are already beginning to pour in.

    Birth rates among the poor have risen.

    The rich, no problem. They can afford to travel wherever they need to go to get an abortion if they want. It is the poor who are most affected by these laws.

    And that is kind of absurd because poor people tend to vote Democratic. Republican lawmakers are in the process of creating more Democratic voters over time.

    Or maybe we should now be calling it the Demographic Party.

    I've got a thread devoted to that effect if you'd like to talk about that:

    Republican Policies Result In More Poor People.
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    It will never be overturned. The murders of human souls and thirst for blood will continue.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    A very small percentage of cases appealed to the Supreme Court are accepted for review--about 10%. I think they would first have to have a Court of Appeals hear their case which is also unlikely to hear the case since the law is already established.

    When there is established law the appellate courts are unlikely to hear another such case unless it has unique circumstances. That means their chance of even getting to the Supreme Court are low.
    Not to derail the thread but what’s your take on the roe v wade ruling itself? I don’t mean do you support abortion or not. But from a judicial stand point. I’ve heard it argued it was basically the definition of judicial activism and even people who think abortion should be legal say it’s a bad ruling.
    However there are obviously many different opinions and viewpoints.

    What’s your take?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    It will never be overturned. The murders of human souls and thirst for blood will continue.
    I remember hearing stories about how people had back-alley abortions and died all the time, way back in the day.

    I think it was probably legalized to prevent such as that. Would I personally have done it? No. I think it's murder and I would never make the choice to kill a baby. However, I really don't think people should go back to the 30s and 40s where it's never possible. The way I see it is, if you want to kill a baby, you live with that the rest of your life. It has nothing to do with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Life is Golden View Post
    I remember hearing stories about how people had back-alley abortions and died all the time, way back in the day.

    I think it was probably legalized to prevent such as that. Would I personally have done it? No. I think it's murder and I would never make the choice to kill a baby. However, I really don't think people should go back to the 30s and 40s where it's never possible. The way I see it is, if you want to kill a baby, you live with that the rest of your life. It has nothing to do with me.
    The child does not know if it's being burned, stabbed and torn apart in an alley or in a sterile air conditioned room with people going on lunch break afterward.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Jewish law does not consider the fetus to be a being with a soul until it is born. It does not have personhood. Furthermore, before 40 days, some poskim, or deciders of Jewish law, have a low bar for allowing an abortion.

    The Talmud, in Yevamos 69b, cites the view of Rav Hisda that “until forty days from conception the fetus is merely water. It is not yet considered a living being.”

    If there is a threat to a woman’s life, the safety of the mother takes precedence over continuing the pregnancy at any stage. Many sources illustrate this graphically and rather unambiguously, and all modern poskim, or religious decisors, agree on this. In fact, in certain circumstances, a fetus that endangers the life of the mother is legally considered a “murderer” in active pursuit.



    https://www.jta.org/2019/05/22/opini...about-abortion
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    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Not to derail the thread but what’s your take on the roe v wade ruling itself? I don’t mean do you support abortion or not. But from a judicial stand point. I’ve heard it argued it was basically the definition of judicial activism and even people who think abortion should be legal say it’s a bad ruling.
    However there are obviously many different opinions and viewpoints.

    What’s your take?
    Yes, I think it is a convoluted ruling. They had to use the 9th Amendment (for the first time?) to come up with one of the "other rights" (privacy) and then use the 14th (to apply it to the states) and the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th to support their invention of privacy.

    Most people agree with a Supreme Court decision if they like the result, but you can like the result and think it was a bad decision. It should be a decision left to the states although I would want my state to allow abortion.

    I also don't like the argument about it being "my body" because there are a lot of things about my body I can't decide--drugs, death, etc. Does that mean that right only applies to women? I am probably a little more sympathetic toward the Griswold v. Ct decision that first used the privacy argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Life is Golden View Post
    I remember hearing stories about how people had back-alley abortions and died all the time, way back in the day.

    I think it was probably legalized to prevent such as that. Would I personally have done it? No. I think it's murder and I would never make the choice to kill a baby. However, I really don't think people should go back to the 30s and 40s where it's never possible. The way I see it is, if you want to kill a baby, you live with that the rest of your life. It has nothing to do with me.
    In Roe they pointed out that it was originally illegal because it was a dangerous procedure and then made largely legal when it became safer. Later, many states began making prohibitions against it.

    I am always confused by arguments against something because it is will be done illegally. Liberals claim if illegal abortions will be done in back alleys but favor guns laws. Conservatives thinks gun laws are pointless because people will get them illegally but favor laws against abortion. While conservatives think people will get guns despite gun laws they think Mexicans can't come across a wall.

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    In the Georgia law, abortion is strictly banned and criminalized after approximately six weeks. The law includes a provision that seems to allow for abortion in the case of imminent maternal danger.

    But it states that before a legal abortion can proceed, a physician must determine “that a medical emergency exists.” Put in clinical terms, this means that a woman would need to be actively in danger at the time abortion began, along the lines of what Feinstein requires.

    Another complication: If a woman is diagnosed with cancer during her pregnancy and needs to receive chemotherapy and/or radiation in order to survive, abortion is often needed, and is halachically warranted, prior to these treatments. None of these state level bans seem to allow for this, as the mother is not inherently in a state of medical emergency. Would these states argue that chemotherapy and radiation could be given while she is pregnant, and the fetus may or may not survive this noxious assault? Or perhaps they would argue that these treatments cannot be given, as they might cause a spontaneous abortion? In other cases the law is explicit that intentionally triggering a spontaneous abortion would be grounds for prosecution of the mother and doctor.

    There are other nuances in Jewish law that depart from the Christian pro-life narrative:
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

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