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Thread: Reasons For The High Cost Of Healthcare: Money, And The Big Business Of Being Born

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    Default Reasons For The High Cost Of Healthcare: Money, And The Big Business Of Being Born

    Dr. Marsden Wagner was the former Director Of Women's and Children's Health for the World Health Organization.

    He wrote an eye-opening book which explains a significant part of why health care costs so much in America. The reason: Medical interventionism with birth care.

    His book, Born in the USA: How a Broken Maternity System Must Be Fixed to Put Women and Children First First
    is a no-holds-barred critical review of how we do birth in the USA, what the problems are, why they hurt us, and how we could do much better.

    He doesn't even go into the fact that the for-profit birth industry in the USA is costing us huge amounts of money and the costs are spread out to everybody, not just mothers, because of our for-profit insurance industry. That's why we should all care about this subject, whether we know somebody who is pregnant/trying; or not.

    His focus is mostly on the mothers and babies, and how we are not treating them as well as we could.

    Here's the problem. ACOG, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the very powerful lobbying arm of OB-GYNs, sees midwifery as competition, and has quite successfully suppressed America from even considering a completely natural birth.

    Most people think when you're pregnant you have to go to the hospital. This is not true. Pregnant women are pregnant; not sick. The hospital is a place that sick and injured people go for treatment. It is not really the best place to have a baby. It's too expensive, and they have a tendency to use unnecessary medical interventions to induce birth and hurry it along mass production style. Get 'em in and get 'em out and keep that hospital bed turnover rate high for the highest profits.

    This does not always produce the best outcome. It is the highest cost method to have a birth, and it is usually not necessary. Most women don't realize they have other options because OB-GYNs won't tell them, and they acquire women as patients long before they get pregnant. So when women do get pregnant, they are already on a track to the highest cost birth experience but not always the safest.

    We should use Midwives as the primary provider for birth care in the 70-80% of low-risk pregnancies, and rely on OB-GYNs (high paid surgeons) for the 20-30% of high risk cases and in case of complications. Midwifery Birth Centers should be located in or near hospitals. Being nearby (within 20 minutes) is just as safe as being in the hospital because it takes 20 minutes to prep an OR in the case of a needed emergency C-Section.

    Midwives are trained in natural childbirth and know when there is a problem. Amazingly, OB-GYNs are NOT trained in natural childbirth. They are trained in medical intervention birth. The first thing they are going to do is hook up the pregnant woman to a bunch of probes and monitors, and have her stuck in bed in one position. Midwives can and will encourage the woman to get up and walk around naturally as needed and continue having a comfortable life until the moment is at hand. And they are trained to wait for the baby to come naturally, something high dollar surgeons and for-profit hospitals don't always have time for.

    But because of ACOG, Midwifery has been made out to be 'unconventional,' and it is shunned by the very people birthing-age women go to for advice. This is wrong, and it costs us all lots of money. A powerful big money industry has been built on this ruse.



    The Business Of Being Born
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    The countries that use Midwifery for most births have better outcomes, fewer mothers and babies killed, and IT COSTS THEM LESS.

    We are paying more for lower quality.
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    It is really not that hard to understand why healthcare is too expensive in America. Of course, Insurance companies taking tons of money while having no product and deliver no healthcare is a big waste. But the fundamental problem is those on the inside who make the profits, set the prices. That never results in a lower price and more availability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Dr. Marsden Wagner was the former Director Of Women's and Children's Health for the World Health Organization.
    The WHO, that's all anybody needs to know about this thread considering all of the lies and rigged misleading horseshit they've authored about America's healthcare system, life expectancy & the phony, untruthful accolades they claim for Europe's single payer systems. If they ever told the truth about the world's healthcare systems, America's would be at the top even with the tragedy of our federal government's meddling in it.
    "Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The bigger the government, the greater the force and the greater the corruption."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    It is really not that hard to understand why healthcare is too expensive in America. Of course, Insurance companies taking tons of money while having no product and deliver no healthcare is a big waste. But the fundamental problem is those on the inside who make the profits, set the prices. That never results in a lower price and more availability.
    Every added cost I've even noticed to America's healthcare came right along with the fucking federal government's meddling in it!
    "Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The bigger the government, the greater the force and the greater the corruption."

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    Hello Gonzomin,

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    It is really not that hard to understand why healthcare is too expensive in America. Of course, Insurance companies taking tons of money while having no product and deliver no healthcare is a big waste. But the fundamental problem is those on the inside who make the profits, set the prices. That never results in a lower price and more availability.
    And we also waste a lot of money interfering with the natural process of birth which, in most cases, is better off without such interference.
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    You could save even more by just giving birth at home and hoping there are no complications as was routine a hundred years ago.
    Most vaginal births would go fine albeit far more painfully.
    Of course should the baby have the umbilical cord wrapped around their neck as my kid's was, we'll, better luck next time as she would be at best brain damaged and at worst dead.
    You can go back to the future if you like but I prefer professional care.
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Reasons For The High Cost Of Healthcare

    Your rich were able to prevent a proper National Health Service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    And we also waste a lot of money interfering with the natural process of birth which, in most cases, is better off without such interference.
    I had the first two of my five children in a hospital during a time when "natural childbirth" was all the rage. IOW, no epidurals. Only a local for the episiotomy. We did not have insurance for the first child; we had to give the hospital a $600 deposit in order to be able to have him there. We got back $175 of that. Two-day stay in a ward with three other moms, the standard nursing care, meals, and that was that. The second birth was also uncomplicated and cost only a bit more; we had insurance for her. I had the same OB for both births; his fee was $90 for the first child and had gone up to $150 for the second -- for all eight months of prenatal care.

    Moms don't want to bear the pain of childbirth which I can testify is pretty bad. Hence the desire for hospital births, epidurals, etc. In addition, medical malpractice rates for OBs are among the highest in the medical field.
    Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -- Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    You could save even more by just giving birth at home and hoping there are no complications as was routine a hundred years ago.
    Most vaginal births would go fine albeit far more painfully.
    Of course should the baby have the umbilical cord wrapped around their neck as my kid's was, we'll, better luck next time as she would be at best brain damaged and at worst dead.
    You can go back to the future if you like but I prefer professional care.
    Most ultrasounds will show if the cord is wrapped; in that case the mom could opt for the safer hospital birth. I'm glad you had a happy outcome.
    Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. -- Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    You could save even more by just giving birth at home and hoping there are no complications as was routine a hundred years ago.
    Most vaginal births would go fine albeit far more painfully.
    Of course should the baby have the umbilical cord wrapped around their neck as my kid's was, we'll, better luck next time as she would be at best brain damaged and at worst dead.
    You can go back to the future if you like but I prefer professional care.
    Hey - we've got something in common at last! Our third was the only one born at home, and the cord was so wrapped. Fortunately, the midwife saw what was what, the doctor was close at hand, and she manage to end up quite bright. A sweaty few minutes though!

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    Hello ThatOwlWoman,

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I had the first two of my five children in a hospital during a time when "natural childbirth" was all the rage. IOW, no epidurals. Only a local for the episiotomy. We did not have insurance for the first child; we had to give the hospital a $600 deposit in order to be able to have him there. We got back $175 of that. Two-day stay in a ward with three other moms, the standard nursing care, meals, and that was that. The second birth was also uncomplicated and cost only a bit more; we had insurance for her. I had the same OB for both births; his fee was $90 for the first child and had gone up to $150 for the second -- for all eight months of prenatal care.
    Wow. The OB fee nearly doubled just in the time between the first and second child. Well, if that trend continued for decades it is easily understandable why health care costs so much.

    NOW: "The average cost of having a baby in the US is $10,808."

    How much it costs to have a baby

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Moms don't want to bear the pain of childbirth which I can testify is pretty bad. Hence the desire for hospital births, epidurals, etc. In addition, medical malpractice rates for OBs are among the highest in the medical field.
    Nobody ever said it was easy. But those whom have faced it and endured have stated that to complete that experience naturally is a huge accomplishment, a rite of passage, and results in a lifelong feeling of empowerment.

    Insurance rates for OBs are high because they get sued so often. Insurance rates for Midwives are far lower, because Midwives rarely get sued. Midwives handle low risk pregnancies. They won't even take a high risk case. Also, they are trained to recognize when a problem has arisen and to transfer those cases to an OB.

    If an OB gets sued it is usually because of a problem with the outcome.

    If a Midwife gets sued, it is usually because an OB is suing her for 'practicing medicine without a license,' and in many cases, it is a bogus charge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Hey - we've got something in common at last! Our third was the only one born at home, and the cord was so wrapped. Fortunately, the midwife saw what was what, the doctor was close at hand, and she manage to end up quite bright. A sweaty few minutes though!
    I'm glad things we're managed for you and your child.
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Most ultrasounds will show if the cord is wrapped; in that case the mom could opt for the safer hospital birth. I'm glad you had a happy outcome.
    We had ultrasounds and it didn't show. These things can happen at any time. It's fortunate we planned to induce if daughter could be turned ( we knew she was headed for breech). Too much at stake to take chances with for me.
    Just because you don't understand it does not make it bad. Celticguy

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    Hello Celticguy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    You could save even more by just giving birth at home and hoping there are no complications as was routine a hundred years ago.
    Or you could use a warm and comfortable birth center (far more relaxing and conducive to natural childbirth than a cold hospital) with licensed and insured Midwives, who are trained to spot problems in a timely manner, and have an OB on call as a back up. This is how it is done in the majority of industrialized nations which have fewer deaths at or around birth than the USA. They get better results and it costs them less. Why are we paying more and getting a poorer outcome?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Most vaginal births would go fine albeit far more painfully.
    As is the natural process. The bonus is an unparalleled feeling of empowerment for the mother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Of course should the baby have the umbilical cord wrapped around their neck as my kid's was, we'll, better luck next time as she would be at best brain damaged and at worst dead.
    Not true. Midwives are able to use ultrasound and are fully capable to assess when the cord is wrapped. If it is not resolved they would transfer. 70% to 80% of all births have no complications. The average fee for a Midwife assisted birth is approx half that of a hospital birth.
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