Hello Celticguy,
Commerce is people gathering for mutual advantage.
I don't see how there can be commerce without some kind of social interdependence.
Even autonomy is society. It is self-governance.
It is the concept of self-governance being independent from the roll in society.
But there's that ever present reference to society.
Because the OP is straight up logic. We humans exist in societies and we depend on society for our needs. Society provides our needs. Certain individuals specialize in delivering certain needs of society, with different individuals focusing on different needs so that when all of society is put together, all needs are met.
The role of society in meeting our needs cannot be ignored.
How in the world would any of us have our needs met if it were not for the collective of humans working on supplying those needs?
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.
Truth Detector (08-19-2019)
What you CAN’T, & REFUSE to see is the fact that Capitalism is the FREE & mutually positive interaction of individually agreeable commerce & that’s the oh so obvious reason it’s so successful, while socialism is the fucking governments ministers deciding what and who needs whatever & by that notion conducting commerce at the point of a gun. Government socialism is anti-liberty, capitalism is the FREE market place.
"Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The bigger the government, the greater the force and the greater the corruption."
Truth Detector (08-19-2019)
There are no socialistic countries and no capitalistic. They are all mixes. People in Scandanavian countries go to work just like we do. They have corporations and small businesses. We are just arguing about where tax money is allocated. The "socialistic "countries have a better safety net for people and provide healthcare for all. They have higher ratings for happiness.
Our incredible and growing wealth gap puts us at odds with each other. In America, a century plus of power and money going to the top is causing constant pressure and anger. Americans know the wealthy are living special and separate lives. They have the political and financial power to make laws help them at the people's expense.
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.
Hello Celticguy,
Farmers totally do require social interdependence. Most of the equipment they use is manufactured by somebody else in society. The fuel they use comes from another part of society. Most modern farms are corporations now, anyway. It's not just one person. One person rarely runs a productive farm. Often, even it if is a small farm, it is a family that runs it. If that one person farmer is married? That is a social interdependence.
You cannot detach commerce from social interdependence. Commerce is a form of social interdependence. Commerce is only possible in a society. Two people make a deal to trade that is a function of society.
Humans depend on society for their needs. Trying to argue against that is a losing argument.
There is nothing in the OP which is not logical.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
All thats required is compensation. Its just barter. You have something i want, i have something you want so we swap for a mutuably agreeable volume. You do not require society to do that. It all happened free of society for tens of thousands of years.
I understand that you will not agree.
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
Author: Booker T. Washington
The problem with the historical fallacy that is the leftist ideology, in order to believe in these utopian ideals, it presumes that leftists in power can be the "deciders" for what is good for everyone. That leads to failure and is laughably naive.
We don't need "deciders" in Government to tell us how we should behave.
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
Author: Booker T. Washington
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
Author: Booker T. Washington
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
Author: Booker T. Washington
Leftists don't want to be the deciders for other people. We're pro-choice because abortion should be your choice. We believe in LGBT rights because we want LGBT people to choose how they want to live. We want legalized prostitution and drugs because adults should be able to decide what they want to do with their own bodies. We want freedom of and from religion because we want you to decide for yourself what you believe.
Now sure, there are some things we don't want people doing. You want to kill other people? Well, too bad, we won't let you do that. But we will support your right to live how you want as long as you're not harming anyone else.
Freedom. Liberty. 'Murica.
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
Author: Booker T. Washington
Hello Celticguy,
Of course I will not agree with the idea that commerce is not a form of social interdependence. I definitely consider commerce to be a form of social interdependence, a function of society.
When two or more individuals coordinate on anything besides a decision to fight one another, that is a social interaction.
People don't exist in a vacuum. People exist and flourish in society.
People get their needs met through social interactions.
I am amazed you are taking the position that humans do not rely on society to meet their needs.
Toasters don't grow on trees.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
We'll always have government. That's one collective that will just always be there. But we can keep government in check by caring about the entire society. Fascism is achieved when people only care about themselves.
Or when people are manipulated into an "us vs them" mentality, like you have been.
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