Why We Always Need To Think Of The Collective...

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



OK, that would be the part that says:

"Societies serve the needs of the individuals."

And you don't think that's true:



I disagree.

All societies serve the needs of the individuals to some extent or another. The higher the average lifestyle of the society, the more individual needs are being performed by society. Without society, that lone individual would be completely self-reliant for food, clothing, shelter, EVERYTHING.

Proximity allows commerce between individuals.
Society is overhead to that process. Sometimes agreed upon overhead, mostly not.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Proximity allows commerce between individuals.

Commerce between individuals? That's what happens in a society:

" society

n.
The totality of people regarded as forming a community of interdependent individuals.
n.
A group of people broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture."

Society is overhead to that process. Sometimes agreed upon overhead, mostly not.

No, I must disagree. Commerce is only possible if there IS a society. OK? The lack of a society would be that individuals are not in contact or communication with one another. Like a bunch of lone predators. As soon as you have interactions between individuals, that is the basis of a society.

Individual humans depend on society to provide their needs. There is generally a transaction when this takes place, frequently something of common value such as money is exchanged in return for whatever good or service meets the need of the receiving individual, but that doesn't always happen. The individuals look to society to provide nearly all their needs. Almost anything an individual needs, it is probably coming from another individual or group in the broader society of humans.

Societies most definitely serve the needs of the individuals.

[Celticguy]

Commerce existed before society.
Society benefitted rule as a means of seperating individuals from their incomes. Taxes on commerce were far mor efficient than sending goons to rape and pillage.

[Minister of Truth]

Yup, countries with both individualism and collectivism have never been able to reach the high standards of countries like Somalia.

Somalia > Collectivist Cambodia/N Korea/Russia/Germany/etc.

Somalia isn't even the platinum standard for failure in the modern world, given the remaining existence of some Marxist states, along with Venezuela, the Congo, Burma, etc.

[USFREEDOM911]

I disagree! the OP in my opinion is one of the most anti-logical things I ever read. Creating a hybridized capitalist/socialist governing system is like attempting to mix oil with water. Capitalism is the "FREE" market, not designed to deliver equality,but designed to deliver "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY" Socialism is fraudulent promises of equality based on lies, bribery & government force, financed by the labors of working folk!

According to poli's thinking; if you have enough food to feed your family for 2 days, but your neighbor has no food; then you should feed your family and neighbors for 1 day and tell your family "tough shit" on day 2.

[USFREEDOM911]

Hello Celticguy,



OK, that would be the part that says:

"Societies serve the needs of the individuals."

And you don't think that's true:



I disagree.

All societies serve the needs of the individuals to some extent or another. The higher the average lifestyle of the society, the more individual needs are being performed by society. Without society, that lone individual would be completely self-reliant for food, clothing, shelter, EVERYTHING.

It's not true; because societies serve the needs that the "society" find important and care nothing about the "individual".

Prove me to be in error.

[USFREEDOM911]

Hello Celticguy,



Commerce between individuals? That's what happens in a society:

" society

n.
The totality of people regarded as forming a community of interdependent individuals.
n.
A group of people broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture."




.

Individual humans depend on society to provide their needs. There is generally a transaction when this takes place, frequently something of common value such as money is exchanged in return for whatever good or service meets the need of the receiving individual, but that doesn't always happen. The individuals look to society to provide nearly all their needs. Almost anything an individual needs, it is probably coming from another individual or group in the broader society of humans.

Societies most definitely serve the needs of the individuals.

And you continue to spread bullshit, poser,; because TWO people do not make a society.

[StoneByStone]

Somalia > Collectivist Cambodia/N Korea/Russia/Germany/etc.

Somalia isn't even the platinum standard for failure in the modern world, given the remaining existence of some Marxist states, along with Venezuela, the Congo, Burma, etc.

Nobody is saying we should have complete government-enforced collectivism like Fascist countries have. Leftists want us to have freedom but also want people to think of others. We don't want to encourage the kind of immoral selfishness of Randism where it's seen as good to fuck over other people to make money.

[Heff]

One is free to care for society, promote the general welfare, and pursue his interests in a capitalist system already. There is nothing stopping him. That’s not the case in a socialist system.

[leaningright]

Then why do you think Americans should only be white stone?

Has StoneByStone stated a disdain for Native Americans of color? Has he stated a disdain for people of Hispanic origin that are here legally? Has he stated a disdain for African Americans in our society? I haven’t read everything the guy has posted and disagree with a lot of what I do read, but from what I have read it is illegal immigration he opposes...by people of color or otherwise. I really wish the population of South America were white so your side can’t go to hollering “racism” every time someone opposes illegal crossings at our southern border.

[USFREEDOM911]

Has StoneByStone stated a disdain for Native Americans of color? Has he stated a disdain for people of Hispanic origin that are here legally? Has he stated a disdain for African Americans in our society? I haven’t read everything the guy has posted and disagree with a lot of what I do read, but from what I have read it is illegal immigration he opposes...by people of color or otherwise. I really wish the population of South America were white so your side can’t go to hollering “racism” every time someone opposes illegal crossings at our southern border.

But most Hispanics are "white" and Hispanic is only an ethnicity.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Commerce existed before society.

Commerce is social interaction. Commerce can't happen without society.

OK, I am beginning to understand why you disagree with the OP.

We are defining 'society' differently.

I see it as 'The totality of people regarded as forming a community of interdependent individuals.'

I'm not sure what you think society is. The Red Hat Society?

Care to enlighten us?

[USFREEDOM911]

Hello Celticguy,



Commerce is social interaction. Commerce can't happen without society.

OK, I am beginning to understand why you disagree with the OP.

We are defining 'society' differently.

I see it as 'The totality of people regarded as forming a community of interdependent individuals.'

I'm not sure what you think society is. The Red Hat Society?

Care to enlighten us?

Bullshit that it is and bullshit that it can't.

Two people can engage in a transaction and never see each other again.

This does not make them a society,

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



Commerce is social interaction. Commerce can't happen without society.

OK, I am beginning to understand why you disagree with the OP.

We are defining 'society' differently.

I see it as 'The totality of people regarded as forming a community of interdependent individuals.'

I'm not sure what you think society is. The Red Hat Society?

Care to enlighten us?

Closer to people gathering for mutual advantage at the sacrifice of individual autonomy.
The main difference is that you see society as greater than the sum of its parts.
Or
Strength in numbers.

[countryboy]

You hate people of color asshole


quit pretending

Why are you cracking on your fellow traveler? You hate "people of color" who step out of line and get all uppity and shit. Who the fuck do you think you're fooling?