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Thread: Jews, outraged by restrictive abortion laws, are invoking the Hebrew Bible

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    Default Jews, outraged by restrictive abortion laws, are invoking the Hebrew Bible

    “To the bill’s many supporters, this legislation stands as a powerful testament to Alabamians’ deeply held belief that every life is precious and that every life is a sacred gift from God,” Ivey said in a statement.

    This is a familiar argument for the Republican Party when it comes to abortion access. In January, Kirk Cox, speaker of the Virginia House of Delegates, cited biblical scripture when he came out against a proposed bill that would lift late-term abortion restrictions.

    "You knit me together in my mother’s womb,” he said, quoting Psalm 139. “You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born.”

    But for many leaders in the Jewish faith, such interpretations are problematic and even insulting.

    “It makes me apoplectic,” says Danya Ruttenberg, a Chicago-based rabbi who has written about Jews' interpretation of abortion. “Most of the proof texts that they’re bringing in for this are ridiculous. They’re using my sacred text to justify taking away my rights in a way that is just so calculated and craven.”


    The Talmud, a two-part Jewish text comprised of centuries worth of thought, debate and discussion, is also helpful when discussing abortion. The Talmud explains that for the first 40 days of a woman’s pregnancy, the fetus is considered “mere fluid” and considered part of the mother until birth. The baby is considered a nefesh – Hebrew for “soul” or “spirit” – once its head has emerged, and not before.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...46ma_n_JuyiWdc
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    “It just doesn’t make sense,” she says. “Why can’t we, as people of faith who have different specific beliefs about the significance of terminating a pregnancy, be equally free to express our truth?

    “It’s distressing to me that extreme right wing conservatives, that specific segment of Christianity, has co-opted this entire discussion. ... They present themselves as speaking for all people of faith when that is really not the case.”
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Talmud ain't the Bible. She needs to find a new religion to justify her desire for the wants of her flesh.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Talmud ain't the Bible. She needs to find a new religion to justify her desire for the wants of her flesh.
    you are one ignorant goyim, when we Jews refer to Torah we are referring to all Jewish texts

    typical of an illiterate goyim when it comes to Judaism


    Torah (/ˈtɔːrə, ˈtoʊrə/; Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction", "Teaching" or "Law") has a range of meanings. It can most specifically mean the first five books (Pentateuch) of the 24 books of the Tanakh, and it is usually printed with the rabbinic commentaries (perushim). It can mean the continued narrative from the Book of Genesis to the end of the Tanakh (Chronicles), and it can even mean the totality of Jewish teaching, culture and practice, whether derived from biblical texts or later rabbinic writings. Common to all these meanings, Torah consists of the origin of Jewish peoplehood: their call into being by God, their trials and tribulations, and their covenant with their God, which involves following a way of life embodied in a set of moral and religious obligations and civil laws (halakha).
    Last edited by Guno צְבִי; 08-01-2019 at 08:32 PM.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Guno צְבִי For This Post:

    Mason Melchizedek (08-01-2019)

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    So much for the goyims god

    God is not a man that He should lie, nor a mortal that He should change His mind.

    (Numbers 23:19)

    And also the Eternal One of Israel will not lie nor change His mind; for he is not a man, that He should change His mind.

    (I Samuel 15:29)

    Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation!

    (Psalm 146:3)


    The Merciful One repeatedly warns the Jewish people to turn away from the goyims gods. As a result of this sin, ten tribes were exiled by Assyria 2,700 years ago. The prophet Hosea warned the Northern Kingdom of Israel that idol worship would lead to their demise. There is, however, wonderful news conveyed in Tanach. Listen to the words of Isaiah:

    Seek the Lord while he may be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him return to the Lord, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord; for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    (Isaiah 55:6-9)


    In his sermon, the prophet promises that repentance alone atones for sin. This is Judaism.
    Last edited by Guno צְבִי; 08-01-2019 at 08:33 PM.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    The strongest argument in the Hebrew Bible for permitting abortion comes from Exodus, Chapter 21, Verse 22-23: “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take a life for a life.”

    In this passage, "gives birth prematurely" could mean the woman miscarries, and the fetus dies. Because there's no expectation that the person who caused the miscarriage is liable for murder, Jewish scholars argue this proves a fetus is not considered a separate person or soul.

    The Talmud, a two-part Jewish text comprised of centuries worth of thought, debate and discussion, is also helpful when discussing abortion. The Talmud explains that for the first 40 days of a woman’s pregnancy, the fetus is considered “mere fluid” and considered part of the mother until birth. The baby is considered a nefesh – Hebrew for “soul” or “spirit” – once its head has emerged, and not before.

    Jewish tradition and scholars have also acknowledged a pregnant woman’s potential “great need” to terminate a pregnancy.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    you are one ignorant goyim, when we Jews refer to Torah we are referring to all Jewish texts

    typical of an illiterate goyim when it comes to Judaism


    Torah (/ˈtɔːrə, ˈtoʊrə/; Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction", "Teaching" or "Law") has a range of meanings. It can most specifically mean the first five books (Pentateuch) of the 24 books of the Tanakh, and it is usually printed with the rabbinic commentaries (perushim). It can mean the continued narrative from the Book of Genesis to the end of the Tanakh (Chronicles), and it can even mean the totality of Jewish teaching, culture and practice, whether derived from biblical texts or later rabbinic writings. Common to all these meanings, Torah consists of the origin of Jewish peoplehood: their call into being by God, their trials and tribulations, and their covenant with their God, which involves following a way of life embodied in a set of moral and religious obligations and civil laws (halakha).
    I know what Torah is and why it was written. It's not the Bible.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    So much for the goyims god

    God is not a man that He should lie, nor a mortal that He should change His mind.

    (Numbers 23:19)

    And also the Eternal One of Israel will not lie nor change His mind; for he is not a man, that He should change His mind.

    (I Samuel 15:29)

    Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation!

    (Psalm 146:3)


    The Merciful One repeatedly warns the Jewish people to turn away from the goyims gods. As a result of this sin, ten tribes were exiled by Assyria 2,700 years ago. The prophet Hosea warned the Northern Kingdom of Israel that idol worship would lead to their demise. There is, however, wonderful news conveyed in Tanach. Listen to the words of Isaiah:

    Seek the Lord while he may be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts. Let him return to the Lord, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord; for as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    (Isaiah 55:6-9)


    In his sermon, the prophet promises that repentance alone atones for sin. This is Judaism.
    Isaiah 53!
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    Isaiah 53!
    In Chapters 52,53- 54 in Isaiah (also in the original Hebrew all of Isaiah is read as a flowing commentary) , the prophet is referring to the gentile nations who have tormented and inflicted pain and suffering on the Jewish people. It is THESE nations who will be astounded and shocked to see that God has saved us from their persecution and returned us to our home, Israel: and, that ultimately, God will vindicate us for our suffering The same promises appear in the Book of Ezekiel 36:6-9 & 15 and in Jeremiah 30:8-13.

    An interesting point is, many missionaries often claim that "the Rabbis" have deliberately eliminated this chapter from the Haftorah portions (section from Prophets that is read every Shabbat after the Torah reading) in an effort to suppress the fact that Isaiah is talking about Jesus. The Haftorah system was established nearly two hundred years before the common era and Christianity. And we Jews read Isaiah in our synagogues in the original Hebrew

    https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge...h-jesus-part-8

    strange how the goyim know more then the Jews about their own scripture
    Last edited by Guno צְבִי; 08-01-2019 at 08:54 PM.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    In Chapters 52,53- 54, the prophet is referring to the gentile nations who have tormented and inflicted pain and suffering on the Jewish people. It is THESE nations who will be astounded and shocked to see that God has saved us from their persecution and returned us to our home, Israel: and, that ultimately, God will vindicate us for our suffering The same promises appear in the Book of Ezekiel 36:6-9 & 15 and in Jeremiah 30:8-13.

    An interesting point is, many missionaries often claim that "the Rabbis" have deliberately eliminated this chapter from the Haftorah portions (section from Prophets that is read every Shabbat after the Torah reading) in an effort to suppress the fact that Isaiah is talking about Jesus. The Haftorah system was established nearly two hundred years before the common era and Christianity.

    https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge...h-jesus-part-8
    They are talking about Jesus!
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    They are talking about Jesus!
    sorry , no

    The 53rd chapter of Isaiah is a beautiful, poetic song, one of the four “Servant Songs” in which the prophet describes the climactic period of world history when the Messiah will arrive and the Jewish people assume the role as the spiritual leaders of humanity.

    Isaiah 53 is a prophecy foretelling how the world will react when they witness Israel's salvation in the Messianic era. The verses are presented from the perspective of world leaders, who contrast their former scornful attitude toward the Jews with their new realization of Israel's grandeur. After realizing how unfairly they treated the Jewish people, they will be shocked and speechless.

    While the original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.

    https://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53...g_Servant.html
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    The Talmud, a two-part Jewish text comprised of centuries worth of thought, debate and discussion, is also helpful when discussing abortion. The Talmud explains that for the first 40 days of a woman’s pregnancy, the fetus is considered “mere fluid” and considered part of the mother until birth. The baby is considered a nefesh – Hebrew for “soul” or “spirit” – once its head has emerged, and not before.
    Except that's not what Democrats want. They want to be able to kill baybees all the way to the end of the 9th month...

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    Christian Proof-Texting

    missionaries shoot the arrow in the target and then draw the bull’s eye around the arrow. In this fashion, they claim to always be correct, making the evidence conform to their foregone conclusions.

    Let’s begin with a verses taken out of context (a verse out of context is a pretext):


    https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge...proof-texting/
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    sorry , no

    The 53rd chapter of Isaiah is a beautiful, poetic song, one of the four “Servant Songs” in which the prophet describes the climactic period of world history when the Messiah will arrive and the Jewish people assume the role as the spiritual leaders of humanity.

    Isaiah 53 is a prophecy foretelling how the world will react when they witness Israel's salvation in the Messianic era. The verses are presented from the perspective of world leaders, who contrast their former scornful attitude toward the Jews with their new realization of Israel's grandeur. After realizing how unfairly they treated the Jewish people, they will be shocked and speechless.

    While the original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.

    https://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53...g_Servant.html
    AM I,I AM's,AM I
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

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    goyim use this passage to convince the unwitting Jew that right there in his own Tanach is an allusion to the crucifixion of Jesus! What the translators have done is take the phrase ילגרו ידי יראכ, which means, “Like a lion my hands and my feet,” and intentionally mistranslate יראכ to mean “pierced.” The word for pierced in Tanach is רקד. In misappropriating this word to conform to their agenda they have even extracted the letter א in order to read the word as if it were ירכ. Any 1st year Hebrew student knows that the word ירכ means, “to dig,” as we indeed find in (Exodus 21:33), and not “to pierce,”

    Moreover, the astute student should express skepticism at being presented this verse as a messianic-type prophecy, for there is nothing to indicate in this chapter of Psalms that King David is relating anything more than his own travails as he is being pursued by his enemies. Any attempt to attach prophetic meaning to these verses is to take them out of context, which is precisely what the Christian translators have done here.


    The Messiah’s role in Judaism has never been understood to take away our sins. We are taught, just the opposite, when we put aside our sins then the Messiah will come! It is significant that many Christian translations of Isaiah have this translated incorrectly
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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