H.R. 582, “Raise the wage act”

[Into the Night]

I don't know of any minimum wage job where someone can use it to improve their skills.

I know of several:
A ranchhand learning how to handle animals (yes, that means shoveling shit as part of the job), and increasing his skills to successfully being a ranch owner himself.
A slot machine mechanic learning about his chosen field in electronics or computer programming in a trade school or college.
A fast food worker learning about the basics of customer service and holding a job (you know, showing up on time, being responsible, etc) while they are going to school earning a business degree.
An airport fuel lineman or even a baggage handler while they learn about being a pilot or aircraft mechanic.
An apprentice learning to wire or plumb a building (on the job training).
A man selling hot dogs from a cart while he learns how to sell things to people, perhaps eventually become a successful marketer of products, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or more.

You are making an argument of ignorance fallacy. These opportunities exist out there and are used this way, despite the fact that you can't see them for what they are.

Most of those jobs involve doing things that people my age learned through daily living.

Doesn't 'daily living' involve producing something at some time?

Is it that those college graduates never learned to apply themselves or that the field in which they choose to apply it is worthless?

It is both. There are worthless college courses and there are great college courses but the graduate never applies himself.

There are college graduates that are very good at what they do.

Indeed there are. There are also those that never attended any college at all that are very good at what they do, and make good money doing it.

The problem is that very few, if any, place a lot of value on what they have to offer.

I disagree. The problem is simply one of laziness. Anyone that applies himself to their own success, regardless of their education, WILL succeed. Those that do not, simply fail.

[Gonzomin]

Workers, who are the real wealth creators, should have a living wage. That is not only fair but is self-serving for the top 10 percent. If the min is at 15, the costs of food stamps will be cut way down. The costs of any people saving programs will be slashed.
It also kick starts the economy. Regular people with money spend it and create demand. Demand is what makes more companies hire and to expand.

[CFM]

I know of several:
A ranchhand learning how to handle animals (yes, that means shoveling shit as part of the job), and increasing his skills to successfully being a ranch owner himself.
A slot machine mechanic learning about his chosen field in electronics or computer programming in a trade school or college.
A fast food worker learning about the basics of customer service and holding a job (you know, showing up on time, being responsible, etc) while they are going to school earning a business degree.
An airport fuel lineman or even a baggage handler while they learn about being a pilot or aircraft mechanic.
An apprentice learning to wire or plumb a building (on the job training).
A man selling hot dogs from a cart while he learns how to sell things to people, perhaps eventually become a successful marketer of products, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or more.

You are making an argument of ignorance fallacy. These opportunities exist out there and are used this way, despite the fact that you can't see them for what they are.

Doesn't 'daily living' involve producing something at some time?

It is both. There are worthless college courses and there are great college courses but the graduate never applies himself.

Indeed there are. There are also those that never attended any college at all that are very good at what they do, and make good money doing it.

I disagree. The problem is simply one of laziness. Anyone that applies himself to their own success, regardless of their education, WILL succeed. Those that do not, simply fail.

There you go again thinking because you disagree it means you're correct.

[Into the Night]

So you don't think it's simply laziness? You don't think that someone that applies themselves towards their own successes can succeed?

[Gonzomin]

So you don't think it's simply laziness? You don't think that someone that applies themselves towards their own successes can succeed?

Oh yes.anyone who makes less than you, it is because of laziness. I suppose those making more than you are entitled to talk about your laziness.

[Into the Night]

Oh yes.anyone who makes less than you, it is because of laziness. I suppose those making more than you are entitled to talk about your laziness.

My income is completely irrelevant to my argument, dumbass.

[Gonzomin]

My income is completely irrelevant to my argument, dumbass.

As usual, you are wrong and miss the point.

[Supposn]

I know of several:... A slot machine mechanic learning about his chosen field in electronics or computer programming in a trade school or college. ...
... An airport fuel lineman or even a baggage handler while they learn about being a pilot or aircraft mechanic.
An apprentice learning to wire or plumb a building (on the job training).
A man selling hot dogs from a cart while he learns how to sell things to people, perhaps eventually become a successful marketer of products, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or more.

Into the Night, regrettably, I have reason to doubt the validity of some portions of your post:
I’m unaware of any USA minimum wage rate slot machine mechanics.

I suppose it’s conceivable there's a minimum wage apprentice job that would actually provide meaningful on the job training to be a technical craftsman; but not within any USA area I’ve ever lived in.

I doubt if there are a great many minimum wage rate airport fuel linemen or baggage handlers receiving on the job training to be pilots or aircraft mechanics. I doubt if other than a world of fairy tales, it actually happens to any extent.

A man selling hot dogs from a cart while he learns how to sell things to people, perhaps eventually become a successful marketer of products, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or more?
He can begin his entrepreneurial career as soon as he accumulates the capital to purchase or build and store and tow his own cart rather than leasing it from the owner?

Respectfully, Supposn

[Into the Night]

As usual, you are wrong and miss the point.

You are not making one.

[Into the Night]

Into the Night, regrettably, I have reason to doubt the validity of some portions of your post:
I’m unaware of any USA minimum wage rate slot machine mechanics.

Too bad. They exist. Mostly in indian casinos. Argument of ignorance fallacy.

I suppose it’s conceivable there's a minimum wage apprentice job that would actually provide meaningful on the job training to be a technical craftsman; but not within any USA area I’ve ever lived in.

Too bad. They exist. Argument of ignorance fallacy.

I doubt if there are a great many minimum wage rate airport fuel linemen or baggage handlers receiving on the job training to be pilots or aircraft mechanics.

I have trained quite a few of them myself. Argument of ignorance fallacy. I am currently training one lineman that seems to have a real talent as a mechanic. He'll do an excellent job when he gets is license. Another is currently being trained as a pilot. He's a bit slow on the theory, but he has a natural skill on the stick. I'm helping him out with the theory.

I doubt if other than a world of fairy tales, it actually happens to any extent.

Argument from incredulity fallacy.

A man selling hot dogs from a cart while he learns how to sell things to people, perhaps eventually become a successful marketer of products, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year or more?

Sure. It has already happened from time to time.

He can begin his entrepreneurial career as soon as he accumulates the capital to purchase or build and store and tow his own cart rather than leasing it from the owner?

Sometimes. One such started out in Las Vegas selling lobsters out of leased cart. He owns the carts now and has ten locations around town to boot! He's doing well! Sometimes it's someone that recognizes the guy is smart and hires him off the street to work in a brokerage. Sometimes he forms his OWN brokerage. Jerry Herbst owned a single gas station which he acquired after starting there pumping gas. He used his profits to buy more and more of them, and now has gas stations throughout Nevada and Arizona. He owns a couple of casinos and a chain of car washes now as well.

It really is all about simply applying yourself. An education is not needed. You can get it by self study and applying yourself.

Whining about minimum wage laws is just whining. You will never get anywhere with just whining.

[Gonzomin]

You are not making one.

I would explain it to you. It is obvious. But you don't show the ability to understand much.

[Into the Night]

I would explain it to you. It is obvious. But you don't show the ability to understand much.

Explain what? Void argument fallacy.

[Gonzomin]

We used to have apprenticeships in America. Few survive. They were run by companies working with unions. They guaranteed decent starting wages and provided steady increases as you went through the program. When you finished, you were qualified in your profession.

[Supposn]

We used to have apprenticeships in America. Few survive. They were run by companies working with unions. They guaranteed decent starting wages and provided steady increases as you went through the program. When you finished, you were qualified in your profession.

Gonzomin, improvements of nations' educational and training systems are to no lesser extent reflected by their economic and social well-being. Many nations are doing it in manners superior to our own. Respectfully, Supposn

[gfm7175]

H.R. 582, “Raise the wage act” is a good bill, but opponents of the bill will refrain from mentioning the minimum hourly rate will not be $15 until 7th year after the bill's passage.

In the likely case that it's not passed through and added to our federal statutes, I urge U.S. Congressional members to continue striving and pass a bill that would increase the minimum wage rate by 12.5% of its purchasing power until it attains 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter the rate should be monitored and annually adjusted to retain that purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn

Minimum Wage laws are price controls. Price controls ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS lead to shortages. They never work.