Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 98

Thread: Trump Lied

  1. #76 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Delray Beach FL
    Posts
    114,996
    Thanks
    124,828
    Thanked 27,335 Times in 22,664 Posts
    Groans
    3,768
    Groaned 3,239 Times in 2,979 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Obamacare is dying because it was attacked by Republicans.
    Obamacare needs to die because it was a shitty idea, passed along straight party lines and the person who led that charge, Pelosi, didn't even know what was in the bill.

    In addition, it has never lived up to all the lies used to pass the bill. Costs continue to rise, many lost their plans and their doctors and no one is healthier as a result of it.
    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

  2. #77 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    21,174
    Thanks
    3,418
    Thanked 7,931 Times in 5,908 Posts
    Groans
    9
    Groaned 444 Times in 424 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Celticguy,



    So all you really want to do is repeal?

    What good will it do to throw out the law that required insurance companies to cover everyone despite any preexisting conditions?
    It will allow them to write plans that suit the varying needs of the public. It will eliminate forced reporting of your and my personal health information to Uncle Sam (for what purpose we dont know and in violation of HIPPA).
    Among much else.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  3. #78 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello Celticguy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    It will allow them to write plans that suit the varying needs of the public. It will eliminate forced reporting of your and my personal health information to Uncle Sam (for what purpose we dont know and in violation of HIPPA).
    Among much else.
    Those concerns do not outweigh the life or death situation of those with preexisting conditions who would be instantly dropped by greedy insurance companies if the ACA is repealed.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  4. #79 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    21,174
    Thanks
    3,418
    Thanked 7,931 Times in 5,908 Posts
    Groans
    9
    Groaned 444 Times in 424 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Celticguy,



    Those concerns do not outweigh the life or death situation of those with preexisting conditions who would be instantly dropped by greedy insurance companies if the ACA is repealed.
    Pre existing is the only incentive that is effective in getting people covered. Do something to make care affordable to improve proper decisions regarding buy/dont buy.
    When care got needlessly expensive the young and healthy stopped buying ins which even the ACA recognized as being vital.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  5. #80 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello Celticguy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Pre existing is the only incentive that is effective in getting people covered. Do something to make care affordable to improve proper decisions regarding buy/dont buy.
    When care got needlessly expensive the young and healthy stopped buying ins which even the ACA recognized as being vital.
    You are correct in identifying a big problem in the USA. Low wage workers are unable to afford health insurance. Health care coverage has become a luxury only available to the richer classes. This is not a failure of socialism. This is a failure of capitalism. The health care industry has become more focused on profit-taking than on care-providing. The health care industry has become more about increasing profits than about providing health care where it is needed.

    Capitalism caused this problem. Capitalism has no solution to this problem. The ACA was created to address this problem because capitalism couldn't do it.

    The real lesson is that the capitalist profit-seeking approach is wrong for making health care available to everyone. The only way to provide health care to everyone is for it to be a socialized system.

    Trump dangled a false promise in front of voters when he said “I am going to take care of everybody."

    It sounded too good to be true. It was suspect from the start because there were no details. Trump had no plan, just empty words. But he correctly identified what the nation wants. The nation wants everybody to to be taken care of when it comes to health care.

    Before the ACA rates were lower (they were still unaffordable to many) because people with pre-existing conditions were simply refused coverage. Insurance companies did not pay for their treatment, so they often simply died for lack of enough money to pay for care. Many Americans knew or were related to people caught in this capitalist nightmare, and were adamant that had to be fixed.

    The ACA forced insurers to offer coverage to everybody. It also sought to provide financial assistance to those who still could not afford coverage. Understandably, this caused an increase in rates for others.

    Republicans looked for any way to destroy Obamacare and make it fail. They found it by challenging the crucial part of it which required everyone to buy in. Without that part of the law the rates have risen and will continue to rise. This leads to a system which is not much better than before the law. Health care is still prohibitively expensive, and the powerful executives of big insurance and big pharma are still getting fabulously rich at the expense of everyday working Americans and tax payers.

    This leads us right back to the premise that capitalism is simply not right for health care.

    Health care needs to be a basic right, guaranteed by our country, and provided by government. Everyone should be taxed to pay for it, according to their ability to pay. By removing the big profit-takers from the equation, the cost will be as low as possible. Since health care will no longer be tied to work, more entrepreneurship will flourish. Without the need to provide health insurance to workers, small businesses will be freed up to become more competitive, especially with foreign companies which are not burdened with health care costs.

    When everyone has health coverage, there will be fewer sick people, and a healthier more productive nation.

    Sometimes the socialist approach is better and more appropriate than the capitalist one. Certainly on a national scale this is true.

    Several candidates are promoting a Public Option for health coverage. This is the ultimate test of doing something for profit or seeing if government can do it better. If the profit motive leads to so much more efficiency that the profits can be paid for by the payers, and it still comes out cheaper, then they should have nothing to fear from a government-provided plan which will not be burdened by the need to turn a profit, and instead can operate at cost. But instead of putting their money where their mouth is, conservatives fear the Public Option, for obvious reasons.

    It only stands to reason that two essentially identical systems, where one has to add in the cost of profit-taking, and the other does not, will show that the non-profit system is more affordable to the user.

    That is what scares the capitalists, and why they fight so strongly against the Public Option. But if what they say is true, that the profit-motive leads to a much more efficient system, then they should be willing to let it stand the ultimate test. If they are unwilling, then it shows they do not believe their own words.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  6. #81 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    21,174
    Thanks
    3,418
    Thanked 7,931 Times in 5,908 Posts
    Groans
    9
    Groaned 444 Times in 424 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Celticguy,



    You are correct in identifying a big problem in the USA. Low wage workers are unable to afford health insurance. Health care coverage has become a luxury only available to the richer classes. This is not a failure of socialism. This is a failure of capitalism. The health care industry has become more focused on profit-taking than on care-providing. The health care industry has become more about increasing profits than about providing health care where it is needed.

    Capitalism caused this problem. Capitalism has no solution to this problem. The ACA was created to address this problem because capitalism couldn't do it.

    The real lesson is that the capitalist profit-seeking approach is wrong for making health care available to everyone. The only way to provide health care to everyone is for it to be a socialized system.

    Trump dangled a false promise in front of voters when he said “I am going to take care of everybody."

    It sounded too good to be true. It was suspect from the start because there were no details. Trump had no plan, just empty words. But he correctly identified what the nation wants. The nation wants everybody to to be taken care of when it comes to health care.

    Before the ACA rates were lower (they were still unaffordable to many) because people with pre-existing conditions were simply refused coverage. Insurance companies did not pay for their treatment, so they often simply died for lack of enough money to pay for care. Many Americans knew or were related to people caught in this capitalist nightmare, and were adamant that had to be fixed.

    The ACA forced insurers to offer coverage to everybody. It also sought to provide financial assistance to those who still could not afford coverage. Understandably, this caused an increase in rates for others.

    Republicans looked for any way to destroy Obamacare and make it fail. They found it by challenging the crucial part of it which required everyone to buy in. Without that part of the law the rates have risen and will continue to rise. This leads to a system which is not much better than before the law. Health care is still prohibitively expensive, and the powerful executives of big insurance and big pharma are still getting fabulously rich at the expense of everyday working Americans and tax payers.

    This leads us right back to the premise that capitalism is simply not right for health care.

    Health care needs to be a basic right, guaranteed by our country, and provided by government. Everyone should be taxed to pay for it, according to their ability to pay. By removing the big profit-takers from the equation, the cost will be as low as possible. Since health care will no longer be tied to work, more entrepreneurship will flourish. Without the need to provide health insurance to workers, small businesses will be freed up to become more competitive, especially with foreign companies which are not burdened with health care costs.

    When everyone has health coverage, there will be fewer sick people, and a healthier more productive nation.

    Sometimes the socialist approach is better and more appropriate than the capitalist one. Certainly on a national scale this is true.

    Several candidates are promoting a Public Option for health coverage. This is the ultimate test of doing something for profit or seeing if government can do it better. If the profit motive leads to so much more efficiency that the profits can be paid for by the payers, and it still comes out cheaper, then they should have nothing to fear from a government-provided plan which will not be burdened by the need to turn a profit, and instead can operate at cost. But instead of putting their money where their mouth is, conservatives fear the Public Option, for obvious reasons.

    It only stands to reason that two essentially identical systems, where one has to add in the cost of profit-taking, and the other does not, will show that the non-profit system is more affordable to the user.

    That is what scares the capitalists, and why they fight so strongly against the Public Option. But if what they say is true, that the profit-motive leads to a much more efficient system, then they should be willing to let it stand the ultimate test. If they are unwilling, then it shows they do not believe their own words.
    Tell that to Australia. Its failing there.
    I identified the only problem.
    Government moving into healthcare drove costs into this spiral abetted by malpractice issues.
    Government is not the answer.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  7. #82 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello Celticguy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Tell that to Australia. Its failing there.
    I identified the only problem.
    Government moving into healthcare drove costs into this spiral abetted by malpractice issues.
    Government is not the answer.
    You seriously think if we leave health care to Wall Street and the executives of big insurance and big pharma that it will cost less?

    Pardon me but ....

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha HAAAAAAA!
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  8. #83 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    21,174
    Thanks
    3,418
    Thanked 7,931 Times in 5,908 Posts
    Groans
    9
    Groaned 444 Times in 424 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Celticguy,



    You seriously think if we leave health care to Wall Street and the executives of big insurance and big pharma that it will cost less?

    Pardon me but ....

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha HAAAAAAA!
    We know that it would be the case because it was the case.
    Just as we know that songle payer will not make the improvements it's supporters claim (see Australia).
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  9. #84 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    We know that it would be the case because it was the case.
    Just as we know that songle payer will not make the improvements it's supporters claim (see Australia).
    Wow. You're serious.

    Sorry I laughed.

    OK, you believe health care would be affordable to all if government simply stepped completely out of it and allowed the free market to do it's own thing?

    Is that what you believe?

    When was the last time there was no government involvement in health care?

    The 1960's?

    The only medical imaging then was X-rays.

    That was before CAT Scan machines and MRI.

    How can somebody on minimum wage pay for an MRI?

    Effective minimum wage has been reduced since then, and even at the inflation-adjusted 1968 min wage (about $10) it would still not be possible for a min wage worker to afford health care in the free market.

    We either tell those people: "Tough luck. Too bad. You die. You don't make enough money for us to save you," or we have to tax the rich to pay for it.

    No other option.

    Are you indifferent to their plight?

    Why do you care about the rights of the rich to keep all their wealth more than you care about the rights of the poor to have life itself?

    That's messed up.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to PoliTalker For This Post:

    Phantasmal (07-27-2019)

  11. #85 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    21,174
    Thanks
    3,418
    Thanked 7,931 Times in 5,908 Posts
    Groans
    9
    Groaned 444 Times in 424 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Wow. You're serious.

    Sorry I laughed.

    OK, you believe health care would be affordable to all if government simply stepped completely out of it and allowed the free market to do it's own thing?

    Is that what you believe?

    When was the last time there was no government involvement in health care?

    The 1960's?

    The only medical imaging then was X-rays.

    That was before CAT Scan machines and MRI.

    How can somebody on minimum wage pay for an MRI?

    Effective minimum wage has been reduced since then, and even at the inflation-adjusted 1968 min wage (about $10) it would still not be possible for a min wage worker to afford health care in the free market.

    We either tell those people: "Tough luck. Too bad. You die. You don't make enough money for us to save you," or we have to tax the rich to pay for it.

    No other option.

    Are you indifferent to their plight?

    Why do you care about the rights of the rich to keep all their wealth more than you care about the rights of the poor to have life itself?

    That's messed up.
    Oddly enough there were poor people back then as well. But there were no ox carts plowing the streets picking up the dead. The poor received care only without the govt oaying for it.
    Cat scanners and MRI hape been around since 77, dontcha suppose they have become more affordable in the last 43 years ? Everything else has. The reason they have not is because of government's bottomless pockets.
    I came across the bill my dad paid for me being born into this world. A week in hospital for mom and I. It came to roughly the same as the co-pay for my Daughter coming into the world. One day in hospital for mom and her.
    Of course inflation has a hand in that but we know that medical inflation far outstrips overall inflation.
    You need to open your mind a bit. What you believe really does not match with the facts at hand.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  12. #86 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,147
    Thanks
    263
    Thanked 1,432 Times in 1,124 Posts
    Groans
    117
    Groaned 158 Times in 148 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Wow. You're serious.

    Sorry I laughed.

    OK, you believe health care would be affordable to all if government simply stepped completely out of it and allowed the free market to do it's own thing?

    Is that what you believe?

    When was the last time there was no government involvement in health care?

    The 1960's?

    The only medical imaging then was X-rays.

    That was before CAT Scan machines and MRI.

    How can somebody on minimum wage pay for an MRI?

    Effective minimum wage has been reduced since then, and even at the inflation-adjusted 1968 min wage (about $10) it would still not be possible for a min wage worker to afford health care in the free market.

    We either tell those people: "Tough luck. Too bad. You die. You don't make enough money for us to save you," or we have to tax the rich to pay for it.

    No other option.

    Are you indifferent to their plight?

    Why do you care about the rights of the rich to keep all their wealth more than you care about the rights of the poor to have life itself?

    That's messed up.
    Obamacare TRIPLED my healthcare costs !! Die Obama die !

  13. #87 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    34,430
    Thanks
    23,941
    Thanked 19,095 Times in 13,072 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,908 Times in 5,169 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hello Celticguy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Oddly enough there were poor people back then as well. But there were no ox carts plowing the streets picking up the dead. The poor received care only without the govt oaying for it.
    Cat scanners and MRI hape been around since 77, dontcha suppose they have become more affordable in the last 43 years ? Everything else has. The reason they have not is because of government's bottomless pockets.
    I came across the bill my dad paid for me being born into this world. A week in hospital for mom and I. It came to roughly the same as the co-pay for my Daughter coming into the world. One day in hospital for mom and her.
    Of course inflation has a hand in that but we know that medical inflation far outstrips overall inflation.
    You need to open your mind a bit. What you believe really does not match with the facts at hand.
    Health care has gotten more expensive. I agree with that part.

    You have failed to show that government involvement is the reason.

    You want to treat this as a fact, but I do not accept your facts.

    I consider them to be unsubstantiated claims.

    I also do not see how somebody on a low income could afford modern health care even if it was left completely up to the capitalist market.

    Here is what the capitalists would do without government oversight.

    First of all, forget getting the price you currently pay for having a birth.

    Birthing is not one of the most lucrative areas of health care.

    Capitalists would look at that and say gee. Angioplasties have a higher profit margin. Let's just get rid of the birth center all together. We will expand only the most lucrative services and get rid of all the ones that don't turn the biggest profit. Screw the needs of the community. We are out to make money. Let's just focus on the services that make the most money. Oh, and forget operating an ER that serves anybody who walks in. We will only take those who have been pre-verified to have lots of money or insurance. Let's make this hospital a real profit-producer!
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  14. #88 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    7,405
    Thanks
    757
    Thanked 2,440 Times in 2,013 Posts
    Groans
    60
    Groaned 611 Times in 582 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    There is no fixing the flaws. The entire design is shite.
    I agree Medicare for all
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Mason Melchizedek For This Post:

    PoliTalker (07-28-2019)

  16. #89 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    7,405
    Thanks
    757
    Thanked 2,440 Times in 2,013 Posts
    Groans
    60
    Groaned 611 Times in 582 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loving91390 View Post
    Obamacare TRIPLED my healthcare costs !! Die Obama die !
    You probably had shit coverage,that was outlawed
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

  17. #90 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,147
    Thanks
    263
    Thanked 1,432 Times in 1,124 Posts
    Groans
    117
    Groaned 158 Times in 148 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    You probably had shit coverage,that was outlawed
    I had great coverage .... fuck Obama !

Similar Threads

  1. Everyone knows Cohen lied, he lied to cover Trump's fat ass
    By reagansghost in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-27-2019, 10:06 PM
  2. Bush lied us into iraq. Obama lied us into obamacare. But moon landings are true?
    By Text Drivers are Killers in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-13-2018, 01:46 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-17-2018, 06:17 PM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-22-2017, 02:18 PM
  5. APP - Tony B'liar lied and lied again
    By cancel2 2022 in forum Above Plain Politics Forum
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 12-01-2009, 08:13 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •