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Thread: US government is running out of money faster than expected, Mnuchin warns

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    No paradox is involved.
    You can't make a paradox go away by denying it. You MUST choose one of the conflicting arguments and utterly discard the other. It's the only way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Recessions are not caused by a high federal income tax rate or a low top income tax rate.
    So you choose this argument now? You utterly discard the argument that there is any relationship of any kind between high federal income taxes and recessions? If so, you can never use that argument again. If you can maintain this choice of yours, I will consider your paradox resolved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Everything does not have to be a paradox or a fallacy.
    Correct. The trouble is, you keep making paradoxes and fallacies. As long as you do so, I will call you out on them. If you make valid arguments, you will do much better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    That is just a way to challenge someone's claims
    No. This is a redefinition fallacy (logic->void). It is denying logic as a system. Fallacies are errors in logic, just like a math error. Logic is a closed functional system, just like mathematics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    without really providing any information or reasons.
    None needed. In invalid argument requires no counterargument. Stop making invalid arguments, and we can have a much better conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Very true. I've been critical of Republicans as well. And not just on fiscal matters. Why didn't Republicans do anything about the border issue when they controlled both houses, AND the executive branch? The GOP these days is nothing more than Democrat Party Light.
    Because those are only campaign issues. They use those to get power then do what they really want, cut taxes for the wealthy and cut environmental laws and regulations. The Repubs are following orders from the super-wealthy. That is why they do nothing but point fingers and lie.
    Rebubs were dumb enough to think Trump was building a 30 ft concrete wall and Mexico was paying for it. It is difficult to communicate with people who bought that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    Because those are only campaign issues. They use those to get power then do what they really want, cut taxes for the wealthy and cut environmental laws and regulations. The Repubs are following orders from the super-wealthy. That is why they do nothing but point fingers and lie.
    Rebubs were dumb enough to think Trump was building a 30 ft concrete wall and Mexico was paying for it. It is difficult to communicate with people who bought that.
    Dems do the same thing. But please, continue to lie about the tax cuts.
    Every life matters

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    BUT WAIT!!

    I thought the tax cuts were supposed to generate so much revenue, we literally wouldn't know what to do with it because of all the miraculous 5% growth, or whatever...
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Most recessions occurred during high tax top rates:
    Not recently, though.

    Difference also between then and now is that the deficit exploded, when before it didn't.

    Why is that, do you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Fear not. They'll be back in '21
    Only this time, they're not going to be able to change their bellies, these sneetches.

    #TheLeftRemembers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    But 11/18 recessions occurred during high top tax rates.
    How severe were those recessions? How long did they last, and how much did the economy contract.

    You have this nasty habit of leaving out those details, and it's not hard to figure out why.
    '

    especially since revenue as a percent of GDP were lower or about the same during high taxes.
    There you go again with this weird rev-GDP measurement.

    Flash, a mere 1% change in rev-GDP is the difference of $220B today, which is more than 25% of our current deficit.

    So I don't understand what argument you think you're making when you use that weird metric. The only argument you make is that nominally increasing it leads to revenue windfalls that can reduce deficits and/or fund additional programs or expansions.


    But it illustrates higher taxes do not solve any problems, either.
    YES IT DOES!

    Your problem is that you are a sophist. You are making a false argument deliberately because you crave accommodation of your unearned entitlement.

    A 1% change in rev-GDP is the difference of $220B today.

    $220B is more than 1/4 of our deficit.

    $220B is 40% of Medicaid's budget.

    $220B would fund about 3 years of free public colleges.

    Nominal changes in rev-GDP result in massive changes to revenue.

    But you know that...you're just pretending you don't or you're actively not mentioning it because it completely undermines your entire bullshit argument.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    You can't make a paradox go away by denying it. You MUST choose one of the conflicting arguments and utterly discard the other. It's the only way.

    So you choose this argument now? You utterly discard the argument that there is any relationship of any kind between high federal income taxes and recessions? If so, you can never use that argument again. If you can maintain this choice of yours, I will consider your paradox resolved.
    A paradox cannot go away if it never existed. I never took the position that a relationship existed between the top federal income tax (high or low) rate and recessions.

    I cannot use an argument "again" that I never used in the first place. That was a misunderstanding on your part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Not recently, though.

    Difference also between then and now is that the deficit exploded, when before it didn't.

    Why is that, do you think?
    Because of the policy of increased government spending during times of recession. For example, the AARA stimulus program in 2009 that added $787 billion to the deficit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Because of the policy of increased government spending during times of recession.
    Yet, the deficit didn't increase during other recessions, despite increased spending each year, so why just during the last few over the last 40 years?


    For example, the AARA stimulus program in 2009 that added $787 billion to the deficit.
    Yeah, but there was no stimulus in 2000, or 1991, or 1982.

    So...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    How severe were those recessions? How long did they last, and how much did the economy contract.

    You have this nasty habit of leaving out those details, and it's not hard to figure out why.
    It is easy to figure out why. It is not a "nasty habit" to omit information that is irrelevant to the issue and would contain a large amount of extraneous data nobody would be interested in.

    However, if you want to know all that information you can check the following site. I posted this link earlier so I did not really leave out these details but provided it for those really interested. You obviously were not that interested in the information.

    https://www.nber.org/cycles.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    It is easy to figure out why. It is not a "nasty habit" to omit information that is irrelevant to the issue and would contain a large amount of extraneous data nobody would be interested in.
    Ah, so you are making a subjective judgment as to what information is relevant to what you present.

    Who deemed you the arbiter of what is relevant? No one.

    So you're now admitting to deliberately withholding information that could change the face of your argument because you, personally, don't think it's relevant.

    That's entitlement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    IHowever, if you want to know all that information you can check the following site
    More entitlement there.

    No...I expect you to know your shit, not to send me on a wild goos chase because you deemed something not relevant to your position, even though it can completely change the face of what you're arguing.

    What an entitled liar.

    The problem now, Flash, is that because you're openly admitting to withholding exculpatory information, we cannot trust anything you say. We can't trust that it's fully truthful. We can't trust that it is within proper context. We can't trust that it's even accurate because you took the active step to conceal it.

    What a fucking fraud, coasting on privilege and unearned entitlement.

    So lazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Ah, so you are making a subjective judgment as to what information is relevant to what you present.

    Who deemed you the arbiter of what is relevant? No one.

    So you're now admitting to deliberately withholding information that could change the face of your argument because you, personally, don't think it's relevant.

    That's entitlement.
    We are all the arbiters of what we include in our posts. We are all entitled to do that.

    You had several posts about recessions but also did not include that information.

    Since I provided I link to that data you did not bother to check proves you did not think the information relevant, either. So, my judgment was correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    We are all the arbiters of what we include in our posts. We are all entitled to do that.
    "I am entitled to lie and withhold exculpatory information to make a false point"

    Nice, Flash. Nice.
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