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Thread: People Rumppers used to love but now hate....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    This is hilarious he was put up for VP. remember that? Romney picked him. Is that outside the party? Speaker of the House, elected by Repubs from 2015 to 2019. Yeah, he was an outsider. Truth is Trump was the outsider.
    Dems don't like him because he is a nutso Libertarian and is a proud creator of the wealth gap.
    Joe Liberman was the Democratic Party VP nominee as seven years later he's on stage at the RNC Convention supporting John McCain. Was that hilarious? Do you think Democrats were pumping their fists and cheering "Go Joe!" when he was doing that?

    Who said anything about being an insider or outsider? I said he had fallen out of favor which is a fact. (Now if you want to debate the use of my word many and say some instead that is fair.)

    You need to learn what a Libertarian is before trying to attach that label to Ryan. And you really need to study and better understand the wealth gap if you think it didn't exist until Ryan reached Congress and he was the impetus for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Life is Golden View Post
    Ryan is another spineless establishment wimp like W.
    Good thing he was, too, or social security and Medicare would be gone now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Fair enough. Let’s call them college educated professionals or white collar professionals but by sheer numbers most are middle to upper middle class though certainly some are very wealthy Capitalist. Again these are generalizations about broad coalitions.
    I get your point about the generalizing. I'm probably behind the times on this but I still see the general Democratic coalitions (and there can be overlap of course) as the artsy/creative types, environmentalists, 'college towns' (professors, teachers, educators), government workers, the Wall St types, the tech entrepreneurs and workers and then minorities.

    You definitely narrowed it down more. Is what I wrote above incorrect in your opinion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Good thing he was, too, or social security and Medicare would be gone now.
    If SS or Medicare is ever gone, it will be because the politicians squandered the money.

    I can't stand Repubs who let the media and left shit all over them without defending themselves. W did that for 8 years, such an embarrassment.

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    Jarod, I think Paul Ryan's fall from grace began after Joe Biden made him look like a foolish school boy at the VP debate of 2008.

    Prior to then, wingnuts considered Paul Ryan to be their golden boy - a Ronald Reagan with actual brains.

    Teabaggers were doing a lot of giggling before the 2008 debate assuming that Ryan was going to take Biden apart at the seams. I really think they were shocked and crushed that Biden made Ryan looks like a deer caught in the headlights, and made him look like a cluessless school boy.

    There really is no way to work yourself back into the graces of the wingnut contingent after a debacle like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    I get your point about the generalizing. I'm probably behind the times on this but I still see the general Democratic coalitions (and there can be overlap of course) as the artsy/creative types, environmentalists, 'college towns' (professors, teachers, educators), government workers, the Wall St types, the tech entrepreneurs and workers and then minorities.

    You definitely narrowed it down more. Is what I wrote above incorrect in your opinion?
    No but they do fit into the broad categories I described.

    But let’s not lose my main point. Both parties political coalitions have changed dramatically, particularly with white working class voters switching to the Republican Party which traditionally has opposed the economic interests of workers. If the GOP wishes to retain these voters it will have to change dramatically as will Democrats.

    So what will those changes be? Will Unions start financing Republicans? Will Republicans have to support pro labor policies?

    If so how will Democrats have to change to keep a broad enough coalition to have a governing coalition?
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Jarod, I think Paul Ryan's fall from grace began after Joe Biden made him look like a foolish school boy at the VP debate of 2008.

    Prior to then, wingnuts considered Paul Ryan to be their golden boy - a Ronald Reagan with actual brains.

    Teabaggers were doing a lot of giggling before the 2008 debate assuming that Ryan was going to take Biden apart at the seams. I really think they were shocked and crushed that Biden made Ryan looks like a deer caught in the headlights, and made him look like a cluessless school boy.

    There really is no way to work yourself back into the graces of the wingnut contingent after a debacle like that.

    Reagan did.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Reagan did.
    good point

    In the 70s I think the GOP changed, the rightwing became stronger, and Reagan took advantage of it.

    I do not think the GOP has changed significanly between now and when Ryan was made to look like a fool in the VP debate. I never thought the rightwing was going to excuse him for that performance, especially after they built him up as a boy genius, a Reagan who was actually intelligent, and a future GOP presidential nominee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Life is Golden View Post
    If SS or Medicare is ever gone, it will be because the politicians squandered the money.

    I can't stand Repubs who let the media and left shit all over them without defending themselves. W did that for 8 years, such an embarrassment.
    I'm glad that blurting out "Fake news!" constantly constitutes defending himself, for the Toadstool. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    good point

    In the 70s I think the GOP changed, the rightwing became stronger, and Reagan took advantage of it.

    I do not think the GOP has changed significanly between now and when Ryan was made to look like a fool in the VP debate. I never thought the rightwing was going to excuse him for that performance, especially after they built him up as a boy genius, a Reagan who was actually intelligent, and a future GOP presidential nominee.
    Reagan helped them crawl in bed with the evangelicals, and now they are intertwined like cojoined twins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Reagan helped them crawl in bed with the evangelicals, and now they are intertwined like cojoined twins.
    Sadly True, but it started with Nixon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    No but they do fit into the broad categories I described.

    But let’s not lose my main point. Both parties political coalitions have changed dramatically, particularly with white working class voters switching to the Republican Party which traditionally has opposed the economic interests of workers. If the GOP wishes to retain these voters it will have to change dramatically as will Democrats.

    So what will those changes be? Will Unions start financing Republicans? Will Republicans have to support pro labor policies?

    If so how will Democrats have to change to keep a broad enough coalition to have a governing coalition?
    There’s some variance in what the major democratic candidates believe but overall there’s a pretty consistent belief of higher taxes and support for Medicare for all, along with a wing that supports free college for all and elimination of student debt.

    I’m not sure where republicans make headway into those issues if that’s what’s your discussing from a blue collar perspective.

    Traditionally republicans were more for free trade and democrats weren’t (those aren’t blanket statements but speaking for the majority). Today that could be changing. We’re seeing republicans supporting tariffs and trade wars while democrats found religion on free trade. However I think that’s a Trump phenomenon, not a fundamental shift (I could obviously be wrong there).

    There has been a Pat Buchanan/Rick Santorum wing of the Party that was definitely more blue collar but they never really drew great traction. Trump is a one time force of nature. No one else can do what he does and have the success he’s had and get away with it. So I don’t know who the Republican candidate to succeed will be but it’s going to be a disappointment to many

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Reagan helped them crawl in bed with the evangelicals, and now they are intertwined like cojoined twins.
    A good insight.

    Lets not forget that in addition to the bible thumpers, Reagan appealed to the Dixiecrats, the NeoConfederates, and the white nationalists, and brought them into the Republican Party in force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    A good insight.

    Lets not forget that in addition to the bible thumpers, Reagan appealed to the Dixiecrats, the NeoConfederates, and the white nationalists, and brought them into the Republican Party in force.
    Good point. A true basket of deplorables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Add Paul Ryan to the list.
    he was a rino from jump.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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