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Thread: Great Minds of the Eastern Intellectual Tradition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I literally cannot think of a single friend, colleague, acquantaince that took any kind of class in college focused on Eastern intellectual history. In contrast, quite a few people I knew took the standard undergraduate philosophy and psychology classes focused on the western tradition of Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Kant, Freud, Nietzsche, et al.

    So my hope is to alleviate some of my ignorance about the Eastern tradition.
    I did the comparative religion thng early in life..it sounds silly but the TV show "Kung Fu"
    introduced me to Chinese thought.

    If you watch some of the symbol on the show they are based on taoism, being as Shaolin priests were daoists.
    And the entire fighting system is a combination of "hard" and "soft" styles - mimicking animal movements.
    The hand on the back of his robe is the integration of all animal styles into a human form

    That kind of thought took me to eastern religions and philosophies/religions early.
    Some are too esoteric to use like shinto - some like Confusianism are more universal, but still innately Chinese,
    and then the great ones are daoism,and Buddhism (neither which are god based BTW).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Are these part of those "Great Courses" lectures?
    One and the same....or as I think of it as: "going to college, but without exams and homework".

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    I did the comparative religion thng early in life..it sounds silly but the TV show "Kung Fu"
    introduced me to Chinese thought.

    If you watch some of the symbol on the show they are based on taoism, being as Shaolin priests were daoists.
    And the entire fighting system is a combination of "hard" and "soft" styles - mimicking animal movements.
    The hand on the back of his robe is the integration of all animal styles into a human form

    That kind of thought took me to eastern religions and philosophies/religions early.
    Some are too esoteric to use like shinto - some like Confusianism are more universal, but still innately Chinese,
    and then the great ones are daoism,and Buddhism (neither which are god based BTW).
    In a way, western higher education is still stuck in that Aristotelian scholasticism tradition that began with the first European universities of the Middle Ages, and that thread continues to run its course to the modern day in the West. There is a certain chauvinism about western intellectual thought and western experience that comes affixed to the scholastic tradition.

    That is not to say that I do not hold western intellectual history in the highest esteem - that is where rationalism, skepticism, empiricism, and scientific inquiry really reached its apex. But still, I think the well-rounded person, the educated person really has a major void in their educational experience if they deprive themselves of being exposed to the Eastern intellectual tradition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    daoism is ying/yang principle of the duality of nature and all things
    ~~
    yes daoism doeshave some mystical/sprit based overtunes -I'm not all up on them.
    ANONAMOOSE is a practicing daoist. I'll ask if he wants to comment here
    Thanks for this lovely description.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    One and the same....or as I think of it as: "going to college, but without exams and homework".
    How do you like them so far? We get the catalog of offerings now and then; there are so many that look interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    How do you like them so far? We get the catalog of offerings now and then; there are so many that look interesting.
    For the person who considers themselves a life long learner, they are an incredible resource in my opinion.
    If you have a good public library system, that is the best way to obtain these products for free - either on DVD, audio, or streaming.
    If you try to just order their products from them directly, it can cost an arm and a leg. But there are other options, which are far cheaper, and I can tell you about if you are interested in more intel..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    In a way, western higher education is still stuck in that Aristotelian scholasticism tradition that began with the first European universities of the Middle Ages, and that thread continues to run its course to the modern day in the West. There is a certain chauvinism about western intellectual thought and western experience that comes affixed to the scholastic tradition.

    That is not to say that I do not hold western intellectual history in the highest esteem - that is where rationalism, skepticism, empiricism, and scientific inquiry really reached its apex. But still, I think the well-rounded person, the educated person really has a major void in their educational experience if they deprive themselves of being exposed to the Eastern intellectual tradition.
    well stated.. the west has always seen the eastern ideas as inferior - but I find them much more humanistic/holistic regarding th nature of the world/universe and man

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    I did the comparative religion thng early in life..it sounds silly but the TV show "Kung Fu"
    introduced me to Chinese thought.

    If you watch some of the symbol on the show they are based on taoism, being as Shaolin priests were daoists.
    And the entire fighting system is a combination of "hard" and "soft" styles - mimicking animal movements.
    The hand on the back of his robe is the integration of all animal styles into a human form

    That kind of thought took me to eastern religions and philosophies/religions early.
    Some are too esoteric to use like shinto - some like Confusianism are more universal, but still innately Chinese,
    and then the great ones are daoism,and Buddhism (neither which are god based BTW).
    I studied eastern martial arts when I was young and came to the conclusion that with the exception of Judo and Muay Thai, if you master both Western Boxing and Wrestling you'll kick the ass of any Eastern Martial Arts practitioner.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    For the person who considers themselves a life long learner, they are an incredible resource in my opinion.
    If you have a good public library system, that is the best way to obtain these products for free - either on DVD, audio, or streaming.
    If you try to just order their products from them directly, it can cost an arm and a leg. But there are other options, which are far cheaper, and I can tell you about if you are interested in more intel..
    I'm too cheap to buy their courses but I do review their catalog because it gives me good ideas on topics to buy books on. Which is a lot cheaper. LOL
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    well stated.. the west has always seen the eastern ideas as inferior - but I find them much more humanistic/holistic regarding th nature of the world/universe and man
    Agreed. I couldn't have said it better.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    I'm too cheap to buy their courses but I do review their catalog because it gives me good ideas on topics to buy books on. Which is a lot cheaper. LOL
    This may come as shocking news to Trump boot-lickers, but socialism is well established in this country and I take full advantage of it.

    I would estimate that at least half of of the books, DVDs, and streaming content I watch of literary, historical, and cultural value comes from our Socialist Public Library.

    Our capitalist overlords would probably be utterly furious to become aware of the money they have lost because I don't need their products, being readily available at my local Marxist-Leninist socialist library.

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    Introduction to Confucian Thought
    http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/specia...cius_intro.htm
    Government and society in China were grounded in the Confucian philosophy, which held that there was a
    basic order in the universe and a natural harmony linking man, nature, and the cosmos (heaven); it also held that man was by nature a social being, and that the natural order of the universe should be reflected in human relations.
    The family unit was seen as the primary social unit; relationships within the family were fundamental to all others and comprised three of the "five relationships" that were the models for all others: sovereign-subject; husband-wife; parent-child; elder brother-younger brother; friend-friend.
    In this hierarchy of social relations, each role had clearly defined duties; reciprocity or mutual responsibility between subordinate and superior was fundamental to the Confucian concept of human relations. The virtue of filial piety, or devotion of the child to his parents, was the foundation for all others. When extended to all human beings, it nurtured the highest virtue, humaneness ("ren" or "jen"), or the sense of relatedness to other persons.
    ~~~

    The notion of the role of the state as guarantor of the people's welfare developed very early, along with the monarchy and the bureaucratic state. It was also assumed that good government could bring about order, peace, and the good society.

    Tests of the good ruler were social stability, population growth (a reflection of ancient statecraft where the good ruler was one who could attract people from other states), and ability to create conditions that fostered the people's welfare.
    The Mandate of Heaven was understood as justifying the right to rule, with the corollary right to rebel against a ruler who did not fulfill his duties to the people. The state played a major role in determining water rights, famine control and relief, and insuring social stability. The state encouraged people to grow rice and other grains rather than commercial crops in order to insure and adequate food supply; it held reserves in state granaries, in part to lessen the effects of drought and floods, particularly common in northern China.
    For fear of losing the Mandate of Heaven governments levied very low taxes which often meant that the government could not provide all the services expected of it, and that officials ended up extorting money from the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    Introduction to Confucian Thought
    http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/specia...cius_intro.htm
    Government and society in China were grounded in the Confucian philosophy, which held that there was a
    basic order in the universe and a natural harmony linking man, nature, and the cosmos (heaven); it also held that man was by nature a social being, and that the natural order of the universe should be reflected in human relations.
    The family unit was seen as the primary social unit; relationships within the family were fundamental to all others and comprised three of the "five relationships" that were the models for all others: sovereign-subject; husband-wife; parent-child; elder brother-younger brother; friend-friend.
    In this hierarchy of social relations, each role had clearly defined duties; reciprocity or mutual responsibility between subordinate and superior was fundamental to the Confucian concept of human relations. The virtue of filial piety, or devotion of the child to his parents, was the foundation for all others. When extended to all human beings, it nurtured the highest virtue, humaneness ("ren" or "jen"), or the sense of relatedness to other persons.
    ~~~

    The notion of the role of the state as guarantor of the people's welfare developed very early, along with the monarchy and the bureaucratic state. It was also assumed that good government could bring about order, peace, and the good society.

    Tests of the good ruler were social stability, population growth (a reflection of ancient statecraft where the good ruler was one who could attract people from other states), and ability to create conditions that fostered the people's welfare.
    The Mandate of Heaven was understood as justifying the right to rule, with the corollary right to rebel against a ruler who did not fulfill his duties to the people. The state played a major role in determining water rights, famine control and relief, and insuring social stability. The state encouraged people to grow rice and other grains rather than commercial crops in order to insure and adequate food supply; it held reserves in state granaries, in part to lessen the effects of drought and floods, particularly common in northern China.
    For fear of losing the Mandate of Heaven governments levied very low taxes which often meant that the government could not provide all the services expected of it, and that officials ended up extorting money from the people.
    I cannot pretend to say anything profound about Confucianism, expect what I know at the most rudimentary level.

    The strict social hierarchy inherent in Confucianism does not speak to me personally, though I can appreciate it is all part and parcel of the well ordered society Confucianism advocates for. Neither can one take philosophy out of its historical context, its time and place in human affairs. The warring states period was obviously a time of great chaos and cruelty in the China of antiquity, and I can see how a well ordered society where everyone knew their place could sound appealing.

    What does speak to me in Confucianism is the emphasis on cultivating virtue, that living a life of moral virtue is its own reward, and that leaders, monarchs, and emperors must set an example by having the highest moral character possible.

    I have a class on the Analects of Confucius on my watch list, so hopefully it will be a cure to my continuing ignorance of this eastern tradition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I cannot pretend to say anything profound about Confucianism, expect what I know at the most rudimentary level.

    The strict social hierarchy inherent in Confucianism does not speak to me personally, though I can appreciate it is all part and parcel of the well ordered society Confucianism advocates for. Neither can one take philosophy out of its historical context, its time and place in human affairs. The warring states period was obviously a time of great chaos and cruelty in the China of antiquity, and I can see how a well ordered society where everyone knew their place could sound appealing.

    What does speak to me in Confucianism is the emphasis on cultivating virtue, that living a life of moral virtue is its own reward, and that leaders, monarchs, and emperors must set an example by having the highest moral character possible.

    I have a class on the Analects of Confucius on my watch list, so hopefully it will be a cure to my continuing ignorance of this eastern tradition.
    you got as much as I did out of Confusianism..It's a Chinese remedy for a Chinese problem.
    As far as China goes though it mirrors the loyalty to China by it's people today.
    That is the right role with honor and function clearly demanded by the Mandate of Heaven. China be family..

    The honor thing is notable given the back stabbing scurrilous behavior of the Swamp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    you got as much as I did out of Confusianism..It's a Chinese remedy for a Chinese problem.
    As far as China goes though it mirrors the loyalty to China by it's people today.
    That is the right role with honor and function clearly demanded by the Mandate of Heaven. China be family..

    The honor thing is notable given the back stabbing scurrilous behavior of the Swamp
    Those are good insights.

    I think we also have to keep in mind that without a certain level of expertise, we are ignoring that confuciansim is not a monolithic philosophy that developed as a response to the warring states period of Chinese history. It has evolved and adopted elements of daosim, buddhism, and has gained adherents beyond China as a philosophy of ethics and rationality. So I have to admit that my lack of expertise is obviously making me stereotype and simplify this philosophical tradition

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