The Case For Favoring Increased Sensible Social Assistance Programs Over Reparations.

[PoliTalker]

We are hearing some candidates take a stand on a controversial proposal to simply hand out money to descendants of slaves.

This makes no sense to me for several reasons.

What is the point of reparations?

It is to right the terrible wrong done to slaves and their descendants.

I am all for righting wrongs. That is a very good intention. But let's make sure that is what happens. Some blacks have clawed their way out of poverty despite having the deck stacked against them. They don't need any help. Most blacks do not do as well as whites financially. THAT is where something needs to be done.

The Great Society Plan has helped. We need to expand on that. The Great Society has helped make America Great. A Great Country has a Great Society.

The idea of handing out free money is going to be popular among those who have no money. It could be a strong motivator to get the poor to vote. But would it really have the intended result? Cross-generational poverty results in people who do not know what to do with money. They never had any to invest, so they have no idea how to do that. It is very likely that 'free money' would be quickly spent on the trappings of wealth, rather than building wealth. Such a one-time give-away would likely be squandered, without producing the hoped-for results, and worse, would then be used as a talking point against doing anything to help the poor ever again.

We have to remember the old saying about giving a man a fish or teaching him how to catch fish.

PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

We need to answer some difficult questions.

1. How do you help a poor family to become successful?

2. What are the factors that keep them poor?

3. What can be done to reduce the barriers to success?

I would rather see money invested in enhanced education. We have to recognize that it is going to cost MORE to educate those who do not have good parenting and/or secure lives than it costs to educate those from affluent homes.

I would rather see money invested in addressing the dead zones of social success. Food deserts. Dangerous rough neighborhoods. Gangs and drug abuse.

Make all drugs legal. Change from a system of policing, justice and incarceration to a system of recognizing that drug abuse is a sickness, a health issue which requires rehab. Make drugs legal, so it takes the profits away from gangs. Have compassion for sick abusers rather than contempt. Pay for rehab.

Remove the barriers that keep people poor. Get rid of Buy Here Pay Here and Payday Loan and replace them with better public transportation and urban planning. Expand the US Postal service to offer low end banking and responsible interest rate loans. Capitalist usury does not help anyone escape poverty, but rather locks them into it. Usury prevents success.

Set up a program to make low end home ownership more affordable. When people own their own homes, they are far more likely to take care of them and to clean up their neighborhoods. Pay for more street-cleaning services. We need more parks! Kick the gangs out of parks. We need police who will confront gangs who try to control public property.

I could favor a program that gives modest homes away, free and clear, to deserving people who agree to live in them, care for them, and not sell or borrow against them for 20 years unless such a sale is because they are doing so well they want to buy into a more affluent neighborhood, and can afford to do that.

This all costs a lot of money. I would rather see the money which might go into reparations be spent on these kinds of things. Naturally the place to get that money is by taxing the rich more. Especially the super-rich. The super-rich have so much money they don't even have to work, but they still get richer because they have so many investments. They don't need it. Many have asked to be taxed more. Those people get it. The selfish ones who can never have enough do not get it. We need to ignore the selfish voices and listen to the magnanimous ones who have a better America in their vision.

[/MSG/]

I'm not reading all that, but just give them the money. Anything else is an attempt to exercise control over people under the insidious guise of helping.

[PoliTalker]

If money is going to be given out then just make it a Universal Basic Income and give it to everybody.

Jobs are being replaced by automation, and that is about to ramp way up when AI is truly conquered.

Where are the new jobs for all the truck drivers and cashiers who are about to lose their way of life?

And that is only the beginning of that iceberg.

[Stretch]

It starts in the home, not the taxpayers' pockets. Three generations of government throwing handouts and free stuff at human beings have
obviously failed. Back to basics. Stay in school for 12 years, start working after-school jobs by 16, continue working at as many
jobs as you can at one time while you're young and have the energy, keep an apartment, pay your bills, find a spouse, create a responsible
home environment, start a family when you're able to after a few years and pass along a strong work ethic to that next generation.

Even "dumb animals" know this. Humans have lost their survival instincts.
I'm watching a bald eagle family on the LIVE CAM in Big Bear, CA. The eaglet is now 73 days old and just about as big as his father. Dad just
swooped into the nest with a huge salmon for junior. Dad starts ripping it apart and giving some to the kid who's screeching his head off with hunger.
For the past 3 days dad has started holding back on the portion which drives the kid nuts. Dad stands firm and even engages in a type of
tug of war now to force his son to fight for his meal. Finally dad leaves the remaining fish for the son to feed himself if he wants it that bad. After a few
minutes, dad flies off leaving him alone. And, he'll remain alone for the next 10 hours when either mom or dad will fly in to stay with him over night.
Junior has been pumping his wings hard for the last few days gaining strength to flap himself up about 3 inches on to a perch. He's dying to get
out of the nest and use all the skills he's learned from his parents. His own initiative will get him out of that nest. He now knows all about finding a
mate for life, raising a child, working hard for a shelter and food. He knows how to be alert and protect that which he has worked for against someone
looking for a free meal, protecting his home and to be ready to fight to the death to protect that egg until it is born. Then the cycle will continue.
Pretty simple lessons here.

Watch the attack mode and wingspan when guarding her unborn eaglet against an intruder...dad finally shows up afterward, LOL!
She spreads out over the entire nest just daring the raven to come any closer.

[Stretch]

For anyone who cares to watch...............
Here is Simba on LIVE CAM after being fed. Mom or dad will probably be back at sunset.
If you scroll the bottom bar back just a little, you'll see when dad landed with the fish for breakfast.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Stretch,

It starts in the home, [agreed] not the taxpayers' pockets. [such indifference] Three generations of government throwing handouts and free stuff at human beings have
obviously failed. [Totally wrong. Millions of success stories are overlooked] Back to basics. Stay in school for 12 years, start working after-school jobs by 16, continue working at as many
jobs as you can at one time while you're young and have the energy, keep an apartment, pay your bills, find a spouse, create a responsible
home environment, start a family when you're able to after a few years

All excellent advice, but what is obviously needed is more than advice and "I-told-you-so's."

... pass along a strong work ethic to that next generation.

Absolutely agree. That is essentially the biggest difference.

But what happens when that does not occur? Do we blame the children who never benefited from parents who instilled a strong work ethic them? Do we turn our backs on them and place them all into a group of despised social trash whom we refuse to help? Do we simply explain to them that they were born into the wrong situation so it is not our place to help them? Wish them better luck in the next life? Do we trot out all kinds of excuses designed to make our own selves feel better about turning a blind eye to their plight? Is that how 'Great America' works?

Do we say to poor young parents: "Too bad. You screwed yourself. We know you were very young and not every well educated when you became a parent, but we told you so (well, in our minds we did) so now you get what you deserve." Is that what we say to them?

The reality is we never have to say anything to them. We can simply stay away from those people and the forgotten food desert regions they live in. We can simply pretend we don't know that they don't get healthy food; that they are not as able to think clearly because of it; that they don't have secure places to live; that they lose sleep because of gunfire and stress; that they have a pretty tough time paying attention in school when they are concerned about losing friends and relatives to gang activity. We can pretend none of that matters, and simply blame them for being born into the wrong family. That makes it MUCH easier to say it is not the function of government to promote the general welfare or domestic tranquility.

BUT WE WOULD BE WRONG TO THINK LIKE THAT.

[Stretch]

Three generations is long enough for changing the trajectory of peoples' lives. It's up to
the individual to determine if their life is worth the time and effort of changing.

[dukkha]

If money is going to be given out then just make it a Universal Basic Income and give it to everybody.

Jobs are being replaced by automation, and that is about to ramp way up when AI is truly conquered.

Where are the new jobs for all the truck drivers and cashiers who are about to lose their way of life?

And that is only the beginning of that iceberg.

so why do we need more unskilled migrants from Central America ?

[Celticguy]

Im good with legalizing drugs and i go a step further and say give them away free to starve gangs out of exstance.

Since most blacks cant prove their slave roots using that yardstick is impractical. Nothing racist here, most Americans couldnt tell you ancestors in 1850. I can but ive spent a ridiculous amount of time and effort doing the geneology. And because there are people youve heard of in my tree i can go back to when years only had 3 digits.

One of the saddest things ive experienced in my lifetime is the hope of MLK turn to dust in the events after his murder.
Stoney you are a fan of the great society but i can tell you it took the heart of the bkack community and tore it to bits.

The man whose back yard butted up to mine as a kid was a slum lord. Thing is his tennents loved him. Why ? He came from that community, he treated them fairly and worked with them when they fell on hard times.

Until government started regulating and the cost of doing business became untennable. At the same time men stopped marrying because welfare allowed it, drugs became ok and the once proud families disintegrated. I saw all this play out because slum lord's hrandson was my best friend and we frequently went to do repairs and upkeep on the properties.

Sermon over.

Just provide equal opportunity, thats all the b li acks wanted.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Stretch,

Three generations [of repression] is long enough for changing the trajectory of peoples' lives.

BULL-oney!

Blacks still far behind whites in wealth and income.

It's up to the individual to determine if their life is worth the time and effort of changing.

It is not up to you to decide that. And what a ridiculous idea. Up to the individual, eh?

At what point in the life of a young black in the ghetto, born to a broken family and a hopeless, perhaps drug-abusing single parent who has no idea how to be successful herself, supposed to decide he is on an incorrect trajectory, and then make meaningful changes toward a more results-oriented path?

Perhaps at 8-9 years old, when he is first approached to become a gang member? Should he run away to the suburbs? And how is he supposed to support himself and get raised as a homeless child? Appeal to authorities who have no choice but to try to return him to his parent and the dead-end life he was born into?

Man, these people are living the life they were born into.

This is an American problem, not that of a child who has no idea he is supposed to 'make better decisions in life.'

[PoliTalker]

Hello dukkha,

so why do we need more unskilled migrants from Central America ?

One reason is to make the Social Security payments that will keep the system functional. Another is for the beneficial diversity in the American society and in politics. Yet others are that they contribute to the GDP and to the US Treasury.

[Stretch]

Hello Stretch,



BULL-oney!

Blacks still far behind whites in wealth and income.



It is not up to you to decide that. And what a ridiculous idea. Up to the individual, eh?

At what point in the life of a young black in the ghetto, born to a broken family and a hopeless, perhaps drug-abusing single parent who has no idea how to be successful herself, supposed to decide he is on an incorrect trajectory, and then make meaningful changes toward a more results-oriented path?

Perhaps at 8-9 years old, when he is first approached to become a gang member? Should he run away to the suburbs? And how is he supposed to support himself and get raised as a homeless child? Appeal to authorities who have no choice but to try to return him to his parent and the dead-end life he was born into?

Man, these people are living the life they were born into.

This is an American problem, not that of a child who has no idea he is supposed to 'make better decisions in life.'

I can decide if I'm paying for something. If I buy a product that doesn't work, I want my money back. Short of that I just won't buy it again...and again...and again.............

[PoliTalker]

Hello Stretch,

I can decide if I'm paying for something. If I buy a product that doesn't work, I want my money back. Short of that I just won't buy it again...and again...and again.............

Government funding is not a product. This is not about YOU.

It's about what is best for the country.

[Stretch]

Hello Stretch,



Government funding is not a product. This is not about YOU.

It's about MY money.
If it's not a "product" then it shouldn't cost me anything.

[Celticguy]

Three generations is long enough for changing the trajectory of peoples' lives. It's up to
the individual to determine if their life is worth the time and effort of changing.

In that case, we're done.