is germany a succesfull socialist economic model ?

[Wilhelm Zenz]

The social market economy (SOME; German: soziale Marktwirtschaft), also called Rhine capitalism, is a socioeconomic model combining a free market capitalist economic system alongside social policies that establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state. It is sometimes classified as a coordinated market economy. The social market economy was originally promoted and implemented in West Germany by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) under Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in 1949. Its origins can be traced to the interwar Freiburg school of economic thought.

The social market economy was designed to be a third way between laissez-faire economic liberalism and socialist economics. It was strongly inspired by ordoliberalism, social democratic ideas and the political ideology of Christian democracy, or more generally the tradition of Christian ethics. The social market economy refrains from attempts to plan and guide production, the workforce, or sales, but it does support planned efforts to influence the economy through the organic means of a comprehensive economic policy coupled with flexible adaptation to market studies. Combining monetary, credit, trade, tax, customs, investment and social policies as well as other measures, this type of economic policy aims to create an economy that serves the welfare and needs of the entire population, thereby fulfilling its ultimate goal.

The "social" segment is often wrongly confused with socialism and democratic socialism and although aspects were inspired by the latter the social market approach rejects the socialist ideas of replacing private property and markets with social ownership and economic planning. The "social" element to the model instead refers to support for the provision of equal opportunity and protection of those unable to enter the free market labor force because of old-age, disability, or unemployment.

Some authors use the term "social capitalism" with roughly the same meaning as social market economy. It is also called "Rhine capitalism", typically when contrasting it with the Anglo-Saxon model of capitalism. Rather than see it as an antithesis, some authors describe Rhine capitalism as a successful synthesis of the Anglo-American model with social democracy. The German model is also contrasted and compared with other economic models, some of which are also described as "third ways" or regional forms of capitalism, including Tony Blair's Third Way, French dirigisme, the Dutch polder model, the Nordic model, Japanese corporate capitalism and the contemporary Chinese model. A 2012 comparative politics textbook distinguishes between the "conservative-corporatist welfare state" (arising from the German social market economy) and the "labor-led social democratic welfare state". The concept of the model has since been expanded upon into the idea of an eco-social market economy as not only taking into account the social responsibility of humanity, but also the sustainable use and protection of natural resources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

[StoneByStone]

Depends how you define Socialism. Germany doesn't have collective ownership, but they have liberal economics, so Fox News would call them Socialist.

[Mott the Hoople]

The social market economy (SOME; German: soziale Marktwirtschaft), also called Rhine capitalism, is a socioeconomic model combining a free market capitalist economic system alongside social policies that establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state. It is sometimes classified as a coordinated market economy. The social market economy was originally promoted and implemented in West Germany by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) under Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in 1949. Its origins can be traced to the interwar Freiburg school of economic thought.

The social market economy was designed to be a third way between laissez-faire economic liberalism and socialist economics. It was strongly inspired by ordoliberalism, social democratic ideas and the political ideology of Christian democracy, or more generally the tradition of Christian ethics. The social market economy refrains from attempts to plan and guide production, the workforce, or sales, but it does support planned efforts to influence the economy through the organic means of a comprehensive economic policy coupled with flexible adaptation to market studies. Combining monetary, credit, trade, tax, customs, investment and social policies as well as other measures, this type of economic policy aims to create an economy that serves the welfare and needs of the entire population, thereby fulfilling its ultimate goal.

The "social" segment is often wrongly confused with socialism and democratic socialism and although aspects were inspired by the latter the social market approach rejects the socialist ideas of replacing private property and markets with social ownership and economic planning. The "social" element to the model instead refers to support for the provision of equal opportunity and protection of those unable to enter the free market labor force because of old-age, disability, or unemployment.

Some authors use the term "social capitalism" with roughly the same meaning as social market economy. It is also called "Rhine capitalism", typically when contrasting it with the Anglo-Saxon model of capitalism. Rather than see it as an antithesis, some authors describe Rhine capitalism as a successful synthesis of the Anglo-American model with social democracy. The German model is also contrasted and compared with other economic models, some of which are also described as "third ways" or regional forms of capitalism, including Tony Blair's Third Way, French dirigisme, the Dutch polder model, the Nordic model, Japanese corporate capitalism and the contemporary Chinese model. A 2012 comparative politics textbook distinguishes between the "conservative-corporatist welfare state" (arising from the German social market economy) and the "labor-led social democratic welfare state". The concept of the model has since been expanded upon into the idea of an eco-social market economy as not only taking into account the social responsibility of humanity, but also the sustainable use and protection of natural resources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

All capitalist nations have social programs from public education and health care, public pensions or supplemental income programs, public utilities, heavily subsidized industries like agriculture and primary materials, highly regulated housing markets, etc,.

Yet Germany is one of the worlds most successful Capitalist nations with a huge GDP and all the hallmarks of a Capitalist society including ownership of private property, production for profit, not utility, unlimited personal accumulation of wealth (capital), unrestricted wages, labor negotiations, and an extremely competitive free market.

This canard of the Western European Socialist States is a canard of the first order. Germany is no more or no less “socialist” than then the US. They may prioritize social programs the US does not but the reverse is true. Not only that but the social programs in both countries are supported by a democratic political process.

The myth of the Western European Socialist State is manipulative politicking geared to arouse fear in the least sophisticated, educated and knowledgeable in our population that there may be a socialist hiding under their bed that wants to date their daughter and have unprotected sex with their sons. It’s propaganda targeted towards creating fear and division among the unwashed masses. It works too. Look at how many people actually believe the nonsense.

[artichoke]

After spending years living in "socialist" Germany and exploring all over Europe, what is striking is that, even in one of the wealthiest non-U.S. places on Earth, it is all about learning to do without.
Let's examine the facts:

-There is a crushing 20% sales tax on everything. There is also a TV tax, a radio tax, a dog tax, a death tax of up to 50%, and every other kind of tax you could possibly imagine...for a grand total of about 60-65% of your income (unless you have already been brutalized into poverty by this system, in which case you get welfare). "Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." --Ronald Reagan

-There is no such thing as Central Air...people just suffer through the heat, and freeze in the Winter with these dinky little radiator-heaters (which is all most people can afford, due to staggering government utility costs).

-Gasoline is usually $7-10 per gallon (about 1.50 Euros per liter), due to the government's insanely aggressive taxes on fuel.

-People usually cannot afford 15 or even 30-year mortgages...they often must get 50-year mortgages to purchase a home (government makes housing astronomically expensive).

-Consumers are 100% disregarded, given total crap for options, and complaints over terrible service are completely ignored.

-It takes six hours to do half a load of laundry (government forces people to use these tiny, 'environmentally-friendly' laundry machines).

-Showers are the size of phone booths, water heaters are often woefully inadequate, and all water services cost an absolute fortune.

-Closets do not exist. The only thing you can do to store and organize your clothing is to purchase a huge, bulky piece of furniture called a "wardrobe" for every bedroom, which leaves you with very little actual living space in the already incredibly tiny homes Europeans must deal with.

-You can't wash your own car in your own driveway. That might hurt the environment, so you must take your vehicle to a government-approved car wash and wildly overpay someone else to do it for you.

-Even the "big," "Americanized" trash bins hold no more than a wastebasket of garbage...for two weeks of waste (no matter how many people live in your home). If the can is overflowing, they will not take your garbage, and every single item is required by law to be organized into separate color-coded recycling bags.

-You cannot even name your own child without government approval. There is literally an agency you must register with upon giving birth that decides whether or not your child's name is acceptable to the government.

-Gun rights do not exist. The only way to get access to any firearms whatsoever is through a jaw-droppingly extreme permit/licensing process that involves taking elaborate tests, paying fees, and proving to the government you have a "legitimate" reason for wanting a gun (hunting, target shooting, etc.). And even if you do manage to jump through all the hoops required to get a gun, you can still only keep it if you regularly verify to the government that you are actively using it for the purpose you listed, or it will be confiscated.

-Hunting and fishing also require an insane process of government-mandated training, tests, fees, licenses, permits and endless other restrictions.

-Having extreme views is illegal. Being a Neo-Nazi is a crime, as is questioning the Holocaust, or anything that could possibly be construed as "hate speech" by the left. Flipping someone off is also a criminal offense.

-It costs thousands of dollars to get a license, own a car, and pay for the more than $1 million of auto insurance you are forced to carry...and there are speed cameras everywhere, and there is no gray area (my boss couldn't even get out of a ticket from when he sped his wife to the hospital to give birth).

-Nearly two-thirds of YouTube’s top 1,000 videos have been banned in Germany due to the fanatical German Journalists’ Union (DJV) absurdly demanding that artists be paid for each and every video that in any way uses any part of their music--even if it is just some random user having part of some random song on in the background of their video.

-Company web sites are usually primitive and have inaccurate / outdated information, while almost no one answers their phone and you are forced to show up repeatedly during (often ridiculously narrow) operating hours to get the simplest product or service. Germans only work 36-39 hours per week, and the French have a 35-hour work week.

It goes on and on, and on.

Democrats, who used to absolutely crucify people for pointing out their socialist ideas and beliefs, now openly defend this disastrous, time-disproven ideology (see deregulation and lower taxes in China in the 1980s, in India in the 1990s, in Ireland in the early 2000s, and the left's class warfare insanity that destroyed the US economy in 2008) as it punishes success, rewards failure, and lures self-reliant individuals into total nanny state dependence through handouts.

Usually, they try to justify it by arguing that Europe has superior, more affordable education and health care (as if freedom were irrelevant and all that mattered was being better-maintained cattle). But when you actually live there, you can't help but notice that there is more to the story...as when you discover that you have to pay a small fortune to get your kids through grade school. Or that you still have to pay through the nose for insurance every month, cover all your own prescription costs, and sit on waiting lists to see a "free" doctor.

[Earl]

The duena (owner) of my apartment in Sevilla used a small, portable kerosene heater and no air conditioning, just a small fan. This was replicated by most of the homes and apartments there.

The only country that I visited in Europe that had a comparable standard of living was Switzerland. Beautiful country and people.

[Grokmaster]

The social market economy (SOME; German: soziale Marktwirtschaft), also called Rhine capitalism, is a socioeconomic model combining a free market capitalist economic system alongside social policies that establish both fair competition within the market and a welfare state. It is sometimes classified as a coordinated market economy. The social market economy was originally promoted and implemented in West Germany by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) under Chancellor Konrad Adenauer in 1949. Its origins can be traced to the interwar Freiburg school of economic thought.

The social market economy was designed to be a third way between laissez-faire economic liberalism and socialist economics. It was strongly inspired by ordoliberalism, social democratic ideas and the political ideology of Christian democracy, or more generally the tradition of Christian ethics. The social market economy refrains from attempts to plan and guide production, the workforce, or sales, but it does support planned efforts to influence the economy through the organic means of a comprehensive economic policy coupled with flexible adaptation to market studies. Combining monetary, credit, trade, tax, customs, investment and social policies as well as other measures, this type of economic policy aims to create an economy that serves the welfare and needs of the entire population, thereby fulfilling its ultimate goal.

The "social" segment is often wrongly confused with socialism and democratic socialism and although aspects were inspired by the latter the social market approach rejects the socialist ideas of replacing private property and markets with social ownership and economic planning. The "social" element to the model instead refers to support for the provision of equal opportunity and protection of those unable to enter the free market labor force because of old-age, disability, or unemployment.

Some authors use the term "social capitalism" with roughly the same meaning as social market economy. It is also called "Rhine capitalism", typically when contrasting it with the Anglo-Saxon model of capitalism. Rather than see it as an antithesis, some authors describe Rhine capitalism as a successful synthesis of the Anglo-American model with social democracy. The German model is also contrasted and compared with other economic models, some of which are also described as "third ways" or regional forms of capitalism, including Tony Blair's Third Way, French dirigisme, the Dutch polder model, the Nordic model, Japanese corporate capitalism and the contemporary Chinese model. A 2012 comparative politics textbook distinguishes between the "conservative-corporatist welfare state" (arising from the German social market economy) and the "labor-led social democratic welfare state". The concept of the model has since been expanded upon into the idea of an eco-social market economy as not only taking into account the social responsibility of humanity, but also the sustainable use and protection of natural resources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

Not without CAPITALISM to LEECH OFF OF.....

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Depends how you define Socialism. Germany doesn't have collective ownership, but they have liberal economics, so Fox News would call them Socialist.

remember when you were saying you were a nationalist? why did you lie?

[Darth Omar]

Germany is probably better off now than when National Socialism was in place lol.

Beyond that, it’s not something we want to emulate.

[StoneByStone]

remember when you were saying you were a nationalist? why did you lie?

Why do you think that was a lie? What is Globalist about what I said?

[StoneByStone]

Germany is probably better off now than when National Socialism was in place lol.

Beyond that, it’s not something we want to emulate.

Why not? They have much higher living standards.
The only thing they're doing wrong is allowing non-white immigration, but we're doing that too.

[Darth Omar]

Why not? They have much higher living standards.
The only thing they're doing wrong is allowing non-white immigration, but we're doing that too.

‘Living standards’ can be a pretty malleable concept lol.

How much they pay for gasoline in Germany?

[StoneByStone]

‘Living standards’ can be a pretty malleable concept lol.

True. There are people who prefer Russia over Germany because they think dictatorships are better than democratic republics.
However, there are certain things at least most of us can agree on. It's better that the population be healthy and living long lives, it's better that the population be literate and educated, it's better that crime be kept low, and so on. Germany has America beat in all of these categories.

[Darth Omar]

True. There are people who prefer Russia over Germany because they think dictatorships are better than democratic republics.
However, there are certain things at least most of us can agree on. It's better that the population be healthy and living long lives, it's better that the population be literate and educated, it's better that crime be kept low, and so on. Germany has America beat in all of these categories.

Longevity has more to do with lifestyle choices and genetics than government policy lol.

Granted, our public education system generally sucks but I don’t see where socialism has anything to do with it. If they would indoctrinate less, and teach more fundamentals in public schools, that would go along way to improving things.

What are taxes like in Germany? Having more disposable income makes the vast majority of Americans very happy. But for some reason so many of them are so willing to vote to raise their own taxes.

Makes absolutely no sense.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Why do you think that was a lie? What is Globalist about what I said?

just in general, your beliefs about nationalism seem to reflect a globalist caricature of nationalism, like, it must be racist, for instance.

this is the propagandists' technique called "poisoning the well".

[StoneByStone]

Longevity has more to do with lifestyle choices and genetics than government policy lol.

Not always. Healthier food is usually more expensive than fast food, so if you have an economy that leaves you with more spending money, it's easier for you to make the healthy choices. And, of course, there is affordable health care. Germany has way more affordable health care because of government policy.

Granted, our public education system generally sucks but I don’t see where socialism has anything to do with it. If they would indoctrinate less, and teach more fundamentals in public schools, that would go along way to improving things.

Germany and other European countries also have affordable college and, because the government spends less money on war and subsidies for the rich, they're able to spend more on elementary and high schools.

And really, the whole "indoctrination" thing is such a bad argument. If you think homosexuality is a choice, but the science says it's not, then it's not "indoctrination" if a biology professor says homosexuality is natural.

What are taxes like in Germany? Having more disposable income makes the vast majority of Americans very happy. But for some reason so many of them are so willing to vote to raise their own taxes.

Makes absolutely no sense.

The taxes are higher for the rich, which is what most Americans want too.