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Thread: $1B Climate Change Denial Industry: Getting Rich Telling Lies: open discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    I do not agree with him about the Stephan-Boltzmann Law and have told him so on several occasions. He also maintains that the Second Law of Thermodynamics is violated but that's not true either.

    https://energyeducation.ca/encyclope...-Boltzmann_law
    You quote the equation, but you deny it??
    The 'greenhouse effect' does violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. You can't heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. Entropy cannot decrease in any system. It can only increase or stay the same. Heat can only flow from hot to cold.

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    Exceptionally erudite and informative article by Judith Curry, sadly very few on here will have the first clue regarding the content

    https://judithcurry.com/2019/06/21/c...-bias-problem/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    You quote the equation, but you deny it??
    The 'greenhouse effect' does violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. You can't heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. Entropy cannot decrease in any system. It can only increase or stay the same. Heat can only flow from hot to cold.
    I have tried to explain this to you before, but you seem totally incapable of understanding.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2015/10/new...-law-to-earth/

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to cancel2 2022 For This Post:

    Rune (06-23-2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    WRONG. You are attempting to remove the emissivity constant from the equation. The Stefan-Boltzmann law applies to all bodies and all mass, including any atmosphere. You are now attempting to deny Kirchoff's law as well.
    I am so sorry but you are incorrect, as usual.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Exceptionally erudite and informative article by Judith Curry, sadly very few on here will have the first clue regarding the content

    https://judithcurry.com/2019/06/21/c...-bias-problem/
    While this is a big problem in the science community, one must remember that science itself is not a community. It is not even people at all.

    Science is a set of falsifiable theories. It is just the theories themselves. It is not anything more. It is not anything less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    I have tried to explain this to you before, but you seem totally incapable of understanding.

    http://joannenova.com.au/2015/10/new...-law-to-earth/
    Nope. This ignores Kirchoff's law. Earth can and should be treated as a single radiating body, including it's atmosphere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    I am so sorry but you are incorrect, as usual.
    You stated the Stefan-Boltzmann does not apply to Earth because Earth is not a perfectly black body.

    You are attempting to remove the emissivity constant from the equation. The Stefan-Boltzmann law applies to all bodies and all mass, including any atmosphere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    You stated the Stefan-Boltzmann does not apply to Earth because Earth is not a perfectly black body.

    You are attempting to remove the emissivity constant from the equation. The Stefan-Boltzmann law applies to all bodies and all mass, including any atmosphere.
    No it doesn't.
    First of all it specifically excludes out atmosphere, and there is no fixed place of reference.
    Furthermore the Earth is not near enough to a black object to apply.
    We have covered this before.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Nope. This ignores Kirchoff's law. Earth can and should be treated as a single radiating body, including it's atmosphere.
    Richard Feynman said, and I paraphrase, that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. The Second Law of Thermodynamics has withstood every attempt to prove it wrong over 150 years, the only possible exceptions are black holes but that is more likely due to observational inexactitude.

    The second law does not say a cold object cannot pass heat to a warmer object, it states that NET heat flow is always from warmer to colder. As stated before, any object above absolute zero radiates energy and is radiated in all directions.
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 06-23-2019 at 09:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    No it doesn't.
    You are just denying the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    First of all it specifically excludes out atmosphere, and there is no fixed place of reference.
    You are denying Kirchoff's law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    Furthermore the Earth is not near enough to a black object to apply.
    You are attempting to remove the emissivity term from the equation, thus denying the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rune View Post
    We have covered this before.
    And you made the same mistakes then too. Argument by repetition fallacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Richard Feynman said, and I paraphrase, that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. The Second Law of Thermodynamics has withstood every attempt to prove it wrong over 150 years, the only possible exceptions are black holes but that is more likely due to observational inexactitude.
    Then why do you deny it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    The second law does not say a cold object cannot pass heat to a warmer object,
    Yes it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    it states that NET heat flow is always from warmer to colder.
    There is such thing as 'net heat'. There is only heat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    As stated before, any object above absolute zero radiates energy and is radiated in all directions.
    You can't heat a warmer surface using a colder substance. You can't do it by conductive heat, you can't do it by convective heat, you can't do it by radiant heat. You CAN'T DO IT.

    No molecule or atom will absorb a photon that has energy than what the molecule or atom already has. Such a molecule or atom appears transparent or reflective.

    You cannot decrease entropy in any system. You can't heat a warmer object with a colder object. You are attempting to construct a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd order.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzomin View Post
    Proof? The air in America has been steadily getting cleaner since those horrible tree lovers got clean air bills passed decades ago. Trump is gutting the environmental agencies and now the air quality is dropping. The facts are there. Why rightys like pollution, I will never know.
    The government did nothing. What cleaned the air was the invention of the EGR system. More efficient FADEC systems made a bit of a difference too.
    Engineers cleaned the air, not the government. The government just passed laws after the fact and claimed credit for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello gfm7175,
    Quote Originally Posted by gfm7175
    What's happening?
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Climate Change.
    Define 'climate change'.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    The industrial age.
    The 'industrial age' began before the United States was even a nation. What about all that time when no one was worried about 'climate change' or 'global warming'?
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    When billion humans burn things daily to utilize powered devices, the CO2 level in the atmosphere is raised.
    So?
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    CO2 prevents heat from radiating out into space, thus warming the planet,
    Not possible. It is not possible to trap heat. It is not possible to reduce the radiance of Earth and increase its temperature at the same time. You are ignoring the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You are also attempting to decrease entropy. You cannot decrease entropy in any system. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    changing the climate.
    There is no such thing as a global climate. There is no such thing as a global weather. Earth has many climates, not one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Define 'climate change'.
    I've been requesting this as well, to no avail... IF I do get a response, the definition ends up being circular.

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    Just another chorus from the Denier Choir.

    Look a tad sweaty, don't they ? Haw, haw...........haw.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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