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Thread: A CASE FOR REPARATIONS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    THANK YOU! Now, what else precisely do you want to discuss?
    Was curious on your thoughts of the Trump administration and if they have done things to make things better for black people in America:

    First Step Act, the Opportunity Zones, restoring funding for black colleges, decrease in the country's poverty rate and a growing economy, a decreasing unemployment rate among Black Americans. I feel like these are steps in the right direction.

    In a slight detour to that - War on Poverty initiatives in 1968, largely a Liberal initiative, arguably contributed more negatively to the Black community than anything the conservatives have done (argued most vehemently by Thomas Sowell but also others). These welfare programs incentivized single black mothers to become "married to the state" rather than the fathers and contributed to more broken homes than ever before.

    Is the way forward under a Trump administration rather than a Liberal one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTQ64 View Post
    Who benefits most from the following? I'll tell you. Private corporations and business............we are not asking for checks were asking for equality.

    Eliminate the for profit prison industrial complex
    Eliminate the cash bail system
    Eliminate Check the box for housing
    Eliminate Redlining in housing
    Eliminate Check the box for employment
    Eliminate Background checks for employment
    Eliminate Bias's in Financial Institutions with low cost, low interest rate loans
    Eliminate Voting restriction
    Eliminate the Electoral College
    Eliminate the Death Penalty
    Eliminate Police Unions
    Eliminate Racist laws such as sagging pants, loitering, skateboarding etc.
    Eliminate Racial segregation laws
    Revise and Revamp the ENTIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM hold racist departments, individual kops and the Justice Department accountable.
    Revise and Revamp the ENTIRE JUDICIAL SYSTEM Hold racist Judges, DA's, Prosecutors, etc accountable.
    Free Healthcare
    Free Education
    Raise the minimum wage to at lest 25.00 hr.
    I could go through that list and demolish your statements pretty thoroughly but I don't think it's worth my time.

    Ah, what the hell...

    Eliminate the for profit prison industrial complex
    So, eliminating prison work programs hum? This will only increase recidivism as inmates have fewer opportunities for useful, paid work. It will make their lives worse in many cases as it reduces their access to funds for things like prison commissary that rolls their profit back into inmate programs like recreation.

    Eliminate the cash bail system
    So, are you saying that everyone arrested should just stay in jail while awaiting trial? That would be not only costly but for most accused it reduces their ability to defend themselves against the charges.

    Eliminate Check the box for housing
    I'm not quite sure what this means. Do you mean being homeless and trying to get employed? I'll leave that for later because you aren't clear.

    Eliminate Redlining in housing
    That has already largely, if not entirely, occurred.

    Eliminate Check the box for employment
    Again, this is not clear as to intent and meaning.

    Eliminate Background checks for employment
    So, you don't mind if say a person that has committed securities and stock frauds gets hired at a brokerage? You don't mind if teachers or daycare workers are child molesters? It's perfectly acceptable to you that someone who has committed theft gets employed at a bank then... There's a reason for background checks.

    Eliminate Bias's in Financial Institutions with low cost, low interest rate loans
    Like what, credit scores? There's a reason losers can't get good loans at low interest and that's because they have a history of not paying them back.

    Eliminate Voting restriction
    So, should children be able to vote? How about the mentally incompetent? You're good with prisoners in prison voting?

    Eliminate the Electoral College
    So we get more mob rule hum? Great... Just 7 states would matter and the rest get kicked to the curb. Better we eliminate "winner take all" electoral college voting assignment by states. That would apportion electoral college votes by the state popular vote. Of course, the Democrats would never go for that since it means not being able to win a presidential election for the foreseeable future if it happened. Only one party wants a straight popular vote because they think it will benefit them, not the nation. Not a good idea.

    Eliminate the Death Penalty
    Okay, on moral grounds this works, on rational grounds it's idiotic. How many life without parole sentences can a truly vile inmate rack up while killing and injuring other inmates and guards in prison before it's too many? Do those people's lives not count?

    Eliminate Police Unions
    But no other unions hum? Why just police unions?

    Eliminate Racist laws such as sagging pants, loitering, skateboarding etc.
    How are these "racist?"

    Eliminate Racial segregation laws
    Like separate Black graduations at colleges because Blacks want a separate one? However, America has eliminated this sort of law, even if the Left is now trying to bring them back.

    Revise and Revamp the ENTIRE LAW ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM hold racist departments, individual kops and the Justice Department accountable.
    Could you give some details on your proposal?

    Revise and Revamp the ENTIRE JUDICIAL SYSTEM Hold racist Judges, DA's, Prosecutors, etc accountable.
    Same thing. Details needed.

    Free Healthcare
    So, doctors, nurses, drug companies will work for free? Do utilities provide hospitals free power? How exactly does this work? Or, do you mean free to you and somebody else is paying the tab?

    Free Education
    Same thing as "free healthcare."

    Raise the minimum wage to at lest 25.00 hr.
    There was a company that gave all its workers a minimum salary of $70,000 a year.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dan-p...b06a3fb50dcf28

    The best and most valuable workers quit because they felt undervalued. The least productive were no more productive after getting a huge raise. Unless you are somehow worth $25 an hour, all you do is raise wages and prices across the board until that wage is as low and worthless as you are unproductive at the low end of the wage scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Stop picking a fight, as I said nothing against the elimination of cash bail...that is a semi-separate issue. And as the old saying goes, you damned sure better know how your enemy works and count the bodies. Like I keep saying, this has to pass Congress before ANYTHING is done. You and I might just live to see some form of reparations to pass...it probably won't be what either of us want entirely, but in the end it will be a start.
    You and I might just live to see some form of reparations to pass...it probably won't be what either of us want entirely

    Picking a fight? WTF? I'm discussing a form of reparation that would be acceptable instead of issuing out a check ............which is what racist whites think we want.

    I'm not sure what you would want for reparations, but clearly it's not what Black Americans want. Blaming congress is an excuse.

    If you don't agree with the list, then say that.........stop making excuses or why it can't happen.

    The things on the list are relatively low or no cost. They benefit private organizations who profit off oppression.

    If congress wont pass them, then vote for a congress who will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTQ64 View Post


    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    Stop picking a fight, as I said nothing against the elimination of cash bail...that is a semi-separate issue. And as the old saying goes, you damned sure better know how your enemy works and count the bodies. Like I keep saying, this has to pass Congress before ANYTHING is done. You and I might just live to see some form of reparations to pass...it probably won't be what either of us want entirely, but in the end it will be a start.


    You and I might just live to see some form of reparations to pass...it probably won't be what either of us want entirely


    Picking a fight? WTF? I'm discussing a form of reparation that would be acceptable instead of issuing out a check ............which is what racist whites think we want.

    I'm not sure what you would want for reparations, but clearly it's not what Black Americans want. Blaming congress is an excuse.

    If you don't agree with the list, then say that.........stop making excuses or why it can't happen.

    The things on the list are relatively low or no cost. They benefit private organizations who profit off oppression.

    If congress wont pass them, then vote for a congress who will.
    Let me be clear.....I know what the alt right propaganda is about what we want.....I'm am discussing what has the best case scenario to get some type of reparation legislation passed...remember, the alt right/congenital racists and bigots in America don't even want to acknowledge the historic reality of the reparations question, let alone have any form of it become reality.

    And yes, you are picking a fight....because right here you take this stance that YOU know exactly what ALL black Americans want. Cleary, given that you've had black folk across the nation and from various stations in life (activists, politicians, etc.) push for this for DECADES, it's obvious you don't have a clear basis to stand on claiming such.

    https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...22#post3734422

    Now go back and read carefully and comprehensively what I wrote in my last response....I make no "excuses" and just point out that the vast majority of your list has been on the docket of black folk and our leadership/advocates practically forever. If you still don't get it, then let me state plainly I SUPPORT THE LIST AND ALWAYS HAVE IN MY LIFETIME.

    Now you accuse me of making an excuse of "blaming Congress". That's not an excuse, that is a reality. You them point out that people need to vote out those who are against our justified agenda and vote in those who support it. No shyte?!!?? People have been trying to do that before you or I were born. Like I said, Congress is the stumbling block, and as things go, I may see a significant change for the better in my lifetime. Time will tell...that's just reality.

    So knock off this zero tolerance "my way or the highway" guff, read carefully and comprehensively what people write. Less tension for all concerned.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triplelefthook View Post

    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    THANK YOU! Now, what else precisely do you want to discuss?

    Was curious on your thoughts of the Trump administration and if they have done things to make things better for black people in America:

    First Step Act, the Opportunity Zones, restoring funding for black colleges, decrease in the country's poverty rate and a growing economy, a decreasing unemployment rate among Black Americans. I feel like these are steps in the right direction.

    In a slight detour to that - War on Poverty initiatives in 1968, largely a Liberal initiative, arguably contributed more negatively to the Black community than anything the conservatives have done (argued most vehemently by Thomas Sowell but also others). These welfare programs incentivized single black mothers to become "married to the state" rather than the fathers and contributed to more broken homes than ever before.

    Is the way forward under a Trump administration rather than a Liberal one?
    When Dump isn't out right lying about his role in anything, he loves to exaggerate....case in point https://www.politifact.com/article/2...an-americans-/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/tr...-unemployment/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/11/job-openings-bunk/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/tr...bs-some-facts/


    No President Trump, Obama’s Economic Recovery Was Not A Con Job

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#4eef909a5e62


    As for your "detour" featuring the darling token of conservative think tanks Thomas Sowell, let's just pull out one factual leg from under his table:

    ..., Sowell attacked President Johnson’s “War on Poverty,” saying, “. . . it is painfully clear that there is more dependency than ever.” Well, yes, there are about 46 million Americans living in poverty now, compared to 40 million in the 1960s, but oops, there’s something Sowell “forgot.” Our population has grown by another 123 million people since then, making our current poverty rate much lower, even after the Great Recession.

    https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr...ct-free-rants/
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Ahh, but here's the thing....the opposition's basic whine is that you just can't get a check because you're a black American citizen who can trace your family tree to your great-grandfather. They include black folk who are 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of recent immigrants, etc. etc.

    What I referring to is a systematic, logical approach that eliminates those arguments. Mind you, it doesn't affect every black American, (and I doubt it will pass Congress) but it does affect enough people to make the case that (once again) non-apologetic largesse based in part on racism is real and should be shared. It can happen....case in point
    https://apnews.com/fdc364f22ee64a8eafc6e241edfdd886
    From a who qualifies perspective my brother-in-law is black. He's actually mixed race with his father from Trindad Tobago and his mother a white Canadian. My B-I-L was born in Canada and although he grew up in the U.S. is still going through the process of becoming an American citizen. So he's not African American as I understand how we define the term but he is black.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post

    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    Ahh, but here's the thing....the opposition's basic whine is that you just can't get a check because you're a black American citizen who can trace your family tree to your great-grandfather. They include black folk who are 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of recent immigrants, etc. etc.

    What I referring to is a systematic, logical approach that eliminates those arguments. Mind you, it doesn't affect every black American, (and I doubt it will pass Congress) but it does affect enough people to make the case that (once again) non-apologetic largesse based in part on racism is real and should be shared. It can happen....case in point
    https://apnews.com/fdc364f22ee64a8eafc6e241edfdd886
    From a who qualifies perspective my brother-in-law is black. He's actually mixed race with his father from Trindad Tobago and his mother a white Canadian. My B-I-L was born in Canada and although he grew up in the U.S. is still going through the process of becoming an American citizen. So he's not African American as I understand how we define the term but he is black.
    So? If under the proposal he couldn't trace his ancestry to American slaves being owned by a business or company that currently exists today, he wouldn't qualify. End of story.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    So? If under the proposal he couldn't trace his ancestry to American slaves being owned by a business or company that currently exists today, he wouldn't qualify. End of story.
    I haven't read the full thread I just saw the discussion over who would quality and my B-I-L came to mind.

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    I would totally support some type of compensation to the actual slaves themselves. Other than that, I am a resounding "No".

    The problems that such an effort would create would far outweigh any possible gains.
    Please leave your Trump 2024 signs in your yard. That way, my dog will know where to take a dump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    So? If under the proposal he couldn't trace his ancestry to American slaves being owned by a business or company that currently exists today, he wouldn't qualify. End of story.

    I haven't read the full thread I just saw the discussion over who would quality and my B-I-L came to mind.
    Understood....didn't mean to come off abrupt and all.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacomaman View Post
    I would totally support some type of compensation to the actual slaves themselves. Other than that, I am a resounding "No".

    The problems that such an effort would create would far outweigh any possible gains.
    "actual slaves themselves"? I think they all died out by now. Any "changes" in the American system/psyche that deals with it legacy of slavery causes "problems"...resistance by the powers that be, etc. We as a country survived before, we can do it again.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    When Dump isn't out right lying about his role in anything, he loves to exaggerate....case in point https://www.politifact.com/article/2...an-americans-/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/tr...-unemployment/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/11/job-openings-bunk/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/tr...bs-some-facts/


    No President Trump, Obama’s Economic Recovery Was Not A Con Job

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#4eef909a5e62


    As for your "detour" featuring the darling token of conservative think tanks Thomas Sowell, let's just pull out one factual leg from under his table:

    ..., Sowell attacked President Johnson’s “War on Poverty,” saying, “. . . it is painfully clear that there is more dependency than ever.” Well, yes, there are about 46 million Americans living in poverty now, compared to 40 million in the 1960s, but oops, there’s something Sowell “forgot.” Our population has grown by another 123 million people since then, making our current poverty rate much lower, even after the Great Recession.

    https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr...ct-free-rants/

    Exaggerate, sure? But where is he lying about any of those initiatives and laws that were passed under his tenure as President? All of which help the African-American communities.

    Is it going to be better under Biden? How similar to Obama will he be as President? Obama was arguably a disaster for Black people in America.

    And in terms of the poverty levels - I agree they have been going down, and they have been going down under Donald Trump. The poverty levels for African-Americans has been going down as well under Trump. Do you not think that has been a positive under his Presidency?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triplelefthook View Post

    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    When Dump isn't out right lying about his role in anything, he loves to exaggerate....case in point https://www.politifact.com/article/2...an-americans-/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/01/tr...-unemployment/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/11/job-openings-bunk/

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/tr...bs-some-facts/


    No President Trump, Obama’s Economic Recovery Was Not A Con Job

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#4eef909a5e62


    As for your "detour" featuring the darling token of conservative think tanks Thomas Sowell, let's just pull out one factual leg from under his table:

    ..., Sowell attacked President Johnson’s “War on Poverty,” saying, “. . . it is painfully clear that there is more dependency than ever.” Well, yes, there are about 46 million Americans living in poverty now, compared to 40 million in the 1960s, but oops, there’s something Sowell “forgot.” Our population has grown by another 123 million people since then, making our current poverty rate much lower, even after the Great Recession.

    https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr...ct-free-rants/





    Exaggerate, sure? But where is he lying about any of those initiatives and laws that were passed under his tenure as President? All of which help the African-American communities.

    Is it going to be better under Biden? How similar to Obama will he be as President? Obama was arguably a disaster for Black people in America.

    And in terms of the poverty levels - I agree they have been going down, and they have been going down under Donald Trump. The poverty levels for African-Americans has been going down as well under Trump. Do you not think that has been a positive under his Presidency?
    Your first paragraph: If you acknowledge exaggerations, then why are you trying to conflate lying with it on all points. Let me explain further to you: Trump can do something positive, BUT he will exaggerate the effectiveness of his actions. He LIES when he makes claims of creating what was really done before him or exceeding past endeavors by others. Capice'? Try actually reading the information contained in my links next time, as I tire of repeating myself.

    Your second sentence is a typical right wing wonk dodge.....making speculation coupled with a declaration that is easily disproved. I challenge TripleLeftHook to factually and logically disprove any point in this link: http://www.communityvoiceks.com/news...70e6bc6f3.html

    And here's how typical right wing wonkism is dismantled on the net: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-words-about-/

    And your last paragraph essentially denies what was laid out in the link I provided. That is another brain dead right wing wonk tactic....lie, deny, repeat. But do keep it coming.....the readers can forward your insipidly stubborn failures for all to see.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    Your first paragraph: If you acknowledge exaggerations, then why are you trying to conflate lying with it on all points. Let me explain further to you: Trump can do something positive, BUT he will exaggerate the effectiveness of his actions. He LIES when he makes claims of creating what was really done before him or exceeding past endeavors by others. Capice'? Try actually reading the information contained in my links next time, as I tire of repeating myself.

    Your second sentence is a typical right wing wonk dodge.....making speculation coupled with a declaration that is easily disproved. I challenge TripleLeftHook to factually and logically disprove any point in this link: http://www.communityvoiceks.com/news...70e6bc6f3.html

    And here's how typical right wing wonkism is dismantled on the net: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-words-about-/

    And your last paragraph essentially denies what was laid out in the link I provided. That is another brain dead right wing wonk tactic....lie, deny, repeat. But do keep it coming.....the readers can forward your insipidly stubborn failures for all to see.
    Exaggerations? How about ginning up ethnic grievances for short-term political gain? Obama's hand is evident in the psychotic deluded outbursts on the street today.

    Did Obama have to pose with a glass of Flint water even after it was known the problem wasn't fully solved??

    Start with that.....then we will take each other issue apart one at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triplelefthook View Post
    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
    Your first paragraph: If you acknowledge exaggerations, then why are you trying to conflate lying with it on all points. Let me explain further to you: Trump can do something positive, BUT he will exaggerate the effectiveness of his actions. He LIES when he makes claims of creating what was really done before him or exceeding past endeavors by others. Capice'? Try actually reading the information contained in my links next time, as I tire of repeating myself.

    Your second sentence is a typical right wing wonk dodge.....making speculation coupled with a declaration that is easily disproved. I challenge TripleLeftHook to factually and logically disprove any point in this link: http://www.communityvoiceks.com/news...70e6bc6f3.html

    And here's how typical right wing wonkism is dismantled on the net: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-words-about-/

    And your last paragraph essentially denies what was laid out in the link I provided. That is another brain dead right wing wonk tactic....lie, deny, repeat. But do keep it coming.....the readers can forward your insipidly stubborn failures for all to see.


    1. Exaggerations? How about ginning up ethnic grievances for short-term political gain? Obama's hand is evident in the psychotic deluded outbursts on the street today.

    2. Did Obama have to pose with a glass of Flint water even after it was known the problem wasn't fully solved??

    3. Start with that.....then we will take each other issue apart one at a time.
    And as the chronology of the posts shows, when directly challenged on specific points, right wing wonks just ignore what they can't disprove and then double down with more accusations. As we see here, TripleLeftHook NOW zeros in on two incidences of the Obama administration in order say that they were indicative of his ENTIRE 8 years. Let's make short work of this (I've numbered TLH's accusations accordingly:

    1. The conservative peanut gallery and right wing wonks keep regurgitating this vague, generalized mantra. But when put on the carpet to provide no-uncertain-terms examples, they don't bear up under close examination. I challenge TLH to provide proof. The reading audience awaits.

    2. Yes. One of several serious bad moves he did in his 8 years that I did not agree with. Mike Moore says it best.https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...bama/83940370/ But this does NOT prove your contention of 8 years of consistent disasters.

    3. Did and done. Now it's your turn. Get crack'in … I'll wait.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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