Why Do Conservatives Hate Immigrants So Much?

[anonymoose]

So then you would disagree with Trump not wanting to let people in because of the country they're from. You care about how much skill the individuals have, not the country they're from. Correct?

correct
Now if they happen to be from Somalia I will take an extra hard look at their credentials.
I've had to deal with Somalis and they are not very pleasant folks. Even other Africans I've encountered do not like Somalis.

Same with Samoans especially when it comes to payment for services. I have them pay up front. I get burned virtually every time by them when I don't have them pay beforhand.

[StoneByStone]

The "americanize them" part i took to refer to the melting pot. Living here is not enough. They need to become part of the fabric and this they refuse to do.

Who refuses to? Which people from which culture said they refuse to become American?

I would say the answer is all non-white peoples, since non-white people never become American. But if this isn't about race, then what is it about?

[StoneByStone]

correct

Fair enough. So do you think Trump is using race in his policies?
The reason I'm curious about this is that I think it's fairly obvious Trump is trying to suck up to white Ethnic Nationalists and that's why so many people like him. Yet the Conservatives here, instead of admitting this, are in complete denial.

[anonymoose]

Fair enough. So do you think Trump is using race in his policies?

It appears that way.

The reason I'm curious about this is that I think it's fairly obvious Trump is trying to suck up to white Ethnic Nationalists and that's why so many people like him. Yet the Conservatives here, instead of admitting this, are in complete denial.

I think he does but I have to support him in spite of that. He wants to enforce existing immigration laws and he has a plan for Dreamers. There are virtually no republicans that have a spine and dims are for open borders, although they don't come right out and say that. Well, some, uh many, do. E.g., California dims.

[StoneByStone]

It appears that way.
I think he does but I have to support him in spite of that. He wants to enforce existing immigration laws and he has a plan for Dreamers. There are virtually no republicans that have a spine and dims are for open borders, although they don't come right out and say that. Well, some, uh many, do. E.g., California dims.

But if you don't care about race, why do you care so much about keeping out illegal immigrants?
I would assume it's about keeping wages from dropping, but if that's the case, you should support Bernie Sanders.

[PoliTalker]

Hello again gfm7175,

Thank you for your thoughts as well.

A pleasure.

Hiring them, marrying them, being friends with them, doing volunteer work with them, welcoming them into one's church community, etc. etc. is "hating" immigrants? Seems to me like they are generally being treated the same as anybody else.

He calls them rapists with no evidence backing up what he says. He rarely gives any evidence of what he says. He mostly lies.

I don't care where people come from; I just care that people support our Constitution and wish to contribute their talents and make themselves useful.

Glad to hear it.

Trump talks down upon the illegal migrants who are causing various issues (rape, murder, drugs, sucking off of our government programs, etc.) and who do not like our Constitution. He speaks highly of legal migrants who contribute their talents to this country and abide by the Constitution. I tend to agree with him on that point.

He claims that the ones who lack the resources and time to apply legally are rapists criminals and druggies. There is no evidence that the delineation is so simple. But simple minded folks are willing to believe it.

We would have even more resources yet if they weren't being siphoned off by those illegals...

That's a myth.

They siphon from our unconstitutional welfare programs, for starters.

Welfare is in the preamble. It is entirely constitutional.

It [the economy] didn't start expanding until Trump took over.

Completely false. The economy began growing under Obama. The stimulus worked.

Under Obama, there was consistently more people unemployed than job openings... Now, under Trump, there are consistently more job openings than people unemployed. When one doesn't stick it up the ass of businesses, good things result from that.

Business has government wrapped around it's little finger. Don't kid yourself. The bigger and more powerful the business is, the more influence it has over government. Ever hear of the revolving door? People go back and forth from government to big business both setting policy and then profiting from it.

The tax cut was not for "the rich"... Pretty much everyone who pays taxes saw their taxes decrease.

That tax cut is temporary for all but the rich.

The deficit has been spiraling out of control since the mid 1900s... Democrats and Republicans alike are to blame for that.

No, the reality is that Democrats have been far better stewards of the budget and debt than Republicans. Clinton created a surplus, urged GWB to pay down the debt, which he ran up instead.

Wages are determined by price discovery.

Such indifference to human plight is what is wrong with strait up capitalism.

Management is going to be paid more than the common worker.

Non sequitor. I know of no one who argues that all workers should be paid the same wage.

Why should wealth be equal?

Non sequitor. I know of no one who argues that wealth should be equal.

Correct that not everyone can be a CEO. If people are not able to rise out of poverty, it is not the employer's fault.

It is a failure of our economic system if people work full time and don't earn enough to rise above poverty.

You'd have to provide me a specific case in order for me to comment on it, but in most cases, poverty is due to people having children out of wedlock, having children when they don't make enough money to afford them, purchasing too many wants and not enough needs, living beyond their means, not developing any useful skills which raise a person's worth, etc. etc. etc... In short, those people are usually not fully applying themselves.

Most people in poverty with children had their children when they were children themselves. By the time they are wise enough to realize their mistake, it is too late to correct it. And since they often come from dysfunctional families and generations of poverty, they don't know how to raise their own children to do any different. It is only the remarkable exceptional ones who manage to do that. Government assistance programs have helped MANY rise above the clutches of cross-generational poverty.

Universal Health Care is a bad idea. It is attempting to make health care into a right.

...as it should be in a great nation

Health care is not a right.

That is our failing. We need to correct that. We are behind other nations in this. They are greater than the USA in this respect.

It infringes upon other people's rights by (effectively) forcing those people at gunpoint to provide those services.

Most people pay their taxes without ever having a gun pointed at them. Spare us the dramatizations.

That's how creating MANY businesses works... You win some, you lose some. Overall, he has built an enormous amount of wealth. He has been very successful at real estate. He has much more wealth now than he inherited.

But if he never tried to increase his wealth and simply invested it he would have more. So he is a failure of a businessman. The math doesn't lie.

Also, I never said that Trump got rich by screwing over other people. You added assertions into my quote (and didn't place those words into brackets either, like the others were, which distinguished who said what).

My apologies. Unintentional. This style of commenting on individual sentences and phrases is time-consuming and cumbersome, which leads to errors. I do try to proof my posts, but mistakes sometimes slip through. You know I respect you and would not try to put words in your mouth.

Up until this point, I pretty much agree with you. We are all individuals with individual skills. Some skills are worth more than other skills (this ties into price discovery). Not all of us can be CEOs, professional sports players, TV personalities, professional musicians, etc...

The vast majority of professional musicians are so underpaid that most of them have day jobs. It is more of a hobby than a job. The pay often doesn't even cover the cost of the equipment.

Yet, we all have the ability to fully apply whatever gifts we were blessed with to make more money than we are making before fully applying those gifts. That doesn't necessarily mean that one can "become rich", but one can indeed maximize their potential, whatever that potential may be. So yes, I'm not completely in line with that 2016 RNC message, since that message is assuming that anyone can be super rich, and that's simply not true.

Thank you for your honest opinion.

Here is part of how the Class War works:

Two individuals of nearly exactly the same qualifications and experience apply for a top position. The one who comes from big money, who has the connections, gets the job. Even if someone manages to get into one of the prestigious schools required for those positions, it is the one who has the family connections to big money who usually gets the job.

Another example of the Class War is usury. 'Oh, we will gladly loan you the money you need to avoid eviction, but we will charge you so much interest you will never be able to save for a down payment."

I think it's already easy enough to come into America legally. [I disagree] How many people do you think this nation can support/house/feed?

In my view we already surpassed that figure long ago for the nation and for the world. Seeing as how nobody in power cared, or cares, we are stuck with overcrowding. It is an international race to the bottom. Our nation's power is a direct reflection of our population level. We simply cannot have a competitive military or economy without a competitive population. We close our borders at our own peril. Until there is worldwide refutation of religion, and embracement of common sense and a logical approach to population control, we simply must grow our population in proportion to world population growth.

But they've already committed a crime... They've already broken the law...

For most their only infraction is illegal entry. That is a misdemeanor. It is a misnomer to call them criminals or say they are 'bringing crime.'

Yes he was... Yes they are... They all want to overthrow the Constitution and replace it with an Oligarchy where they are the ruling class. [hogwash - they say no such thing] Barack Obama's rhetoric led various groups of people to hate each other more than any other President has ever done... [wrong - Trump owns that title] He was the biggest demagogue of them all. [Who was Obama's scapegoat?] Bernie keeps talking about the "top 1 percent" and how evil they are, even though HE HIMSELF is part of it.

Bernie may have finally gotten a net worth of over a million dollars but he did it by writing a bestseller, not screwing people. And he has never once said they are evil. He talks about what their policy does to the populace.

Again, he wasn't referring to legal law abiding immigrants... He was referring to ILLEGAL immigrants and MS13 gang members.

As if all illegal entry is done by gang members. Gangs are the reason most immigrants are coming. Gangs that we created with our own drug policy.

Believe it or not, I listen to Democrats quite often. [I do] I like to hear opposing viewpoints and know what is being argued and what line of reasoning is being used. I have watched people from all over the political spectrum and listened to their argumentation. I also form my own arguments too. [appreciated]

Should I then say that you are just being influenced by liberal propaganda??

You could, but I would counter that I listen to conservatives and try to understand their arguments. It simply occurs to me that liberal arguments make more sense.

You seem to really hate Trump. [Actually I simply disagree with what he does] Why such hatred towards him?? [I can understand why there is hatred toward Trump, but I have none. I actually forgive him. I just think he's messed up - from a messed up father and family.] I was not a fan of Obama as President, and could name all policy agreements between him and me using only one hand, but yet I don't hate the guy at all. I feel no anger towards him. I simply disagree with his policies, disagree with his rhetoric, and disagree with him about what type of government the USA is and how it works. I never endlessly whined about him during his 8 years in office. So, why such hatred and vitriol towards Trump??

That is precisely how I feel about Trump. I don't whine. I simply point out bad policy. I love my country and want to do what is best for America, so Trump has to go.

I don't agree with plenty of US conservatives myself, so I don't see your point... You're trying to group people too much and apply a message very broadly across that whole group of people.

I always try to avoid that but it slips through anyway. I am only human. I make mistakes. If only Trump could utter those words once in a while...

He doesn't hate immigrants. [ if not, he is fomenting it for political purposes] Why should wealth be equal for everyone??

non sequitor.

Nope, because the same problem would arise again when all those people got to retirement age... It's just a band-aid, not a solution...

Wrong. SS is a pyramid system which depends on an ever-increasing population. It could function in a steady state if it were properly managed, but that would require getting the corruption out of government.

And here you yourself recognize what I just got done saying... You recognize one of the many problems with Social Security, yet you propose to add more workers in, who will then in turn become "Baby Boomers: Reprise" and the problem will be even worse than it is now since there will be even more people needing to be supported... and it will be an ever increasing problem (much like our debt problem is right now). You're simply band-aiding this particular Social Security issue which will only make this particular SS issue even worse for future generations...

Nope. and if you want to go there, our nation depends on an ever-increasing population the way things are set up. We've got $22 trillion in debt. The only way to service that is to have an expanding population. Everything about this nation depends on it. I don't think it has to be that way but I recognize that it is.

[anonymoose]

But if you don't care about race, why do you care so much about keeping out illegal immigrants?

Race and illegal immigrants are two completely different things to me. I already stated how my wife is German and we had to jump thru a lot of hoops for her to get her permanent visa. We had to hire a lawyer. We had to have an interview with INS showing letters, photos, emails sent to each other, etc. just to prove we had a relationship and that I wasn't marrying her only to get her in the country. If my wife doesn't renew her visa her employer sends her home without pay until she gets it validated. This actually happened once when she forgot to renew it. (she's still a German citizen.)
Yet you think it's OK for basket weavers to jump the border or flood the border with their kids and they can stay to collect Medicaid, SNAP and subsidized housing.

I would assume it's about keeping wages from dropping, but if that's the case, you should support Bernie Sanders.

You assumed wrong. It's about the rule of law . And our immigration laws are no more strict than most if not all other industrialized countries.

[StoneByStone]

Race and illegal immigrants are two completely different things to me. I already stated how my wife is German and we had to jump thru a lot of hoops for her to get her permanent visa. We had to hire a lawyer. We had to have an interview with INS showing letters, photos, emails sent to each other, etc. just to prove we had a relationship and that I wasn't marrying her only to get her in the country. If my wife doesn't renew her visa her employer sends her home without pay until she gets it validated. This actually happened once when she forgot to renew it. (she's still a German citizen.)
Yet you think it's OK for basket weavers to jump the border or flood the border with their kids and they can stay to collect Medicaid, SNAP and subsidized housing. You assumed wrong. It's about the rule of law . And our immigration laws are no more strict than most if not all other industrialized countries.

It's not that I think illegal immigration is ok, it's that if the illegals were white, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. If anything, I think your story shows that our immigration laws are way too strict for white immigrants.
I prefer legal immigration, but if some white immigrants came here illegally, eh. It's a deal, but not a big deal.

Now if you don't care about race, why are you so against illegal immigration? Why not be in favor of making legal immigration easier?

[Celticguy]

Who refuses to? Which people from which culture said they refuse to become American?

I would say the answer is all non-white peoples, since non-white people never become American. But if this isn't about race, then what is it about?

Say ? No, you see it in fact and deed.
You prefer to see it as race as it suits your taste but its the culture itself that causes it. It plays the same wherever they go.

[StoneByStone]

Say ? No, you see it in fact and deed.
You prefer to see it as race as it suits your taste but its the culture itself that causes it. It plays the same wherever they go.

So which cultures exactly? Which ethnic groups do you think haven't assimilated?

[anonymoose]

Why not be in favor of making legal immigration easier?

I'm for making it the same as for whites. Jump thru the same hoops.
I looked into immigrating to Germany 20 yrs ago and it would have been pretty hard if not impossible without marrying a German national.
Merkel did the same thing dims want to do - open borders who couldn't speak a word of the native language yet make it all but impossible for someone from America with a doctorate who passed the German language proficiency exam (a requirement for employment in Germany) yet she welcomed anyone that claimed refugee status. Believe me, that pissed off most Germans, hence the demise of her party and her political career.

But you did point out that basically it's harder for whites to immigrate than other races. Maybe it's because Europeans and those from industrialized countries tend to obey the rule of law.

[StoneByStone]

I'm for making it the same as for whites. Jump thru the same hoops.
I looked into immigrating to Germany 20 yrs ago and it would have been pretty hard if not impossible without marrying a German national.
Merkel did the same thing dims want to do - open borders who couldn't speak a word of the native language yet make it all but impossible for someone from America with a doctorate who passed the German language proficiency exam (a requirement for employment in Germany) yet she welcomed anyone that claimed refugee status. Believe me, that pissed off most Germans, hence the demise of her party and her political career.

But you did point out that basically it's harder for whites to immigrate than other races. Maybe it's because Europeans and those from industrialized countries tend to obey the rule of law.

No, it's because the Jewish establishment in all of these countries want Whites to become the minority. It's no coincidence that in virtually every Western countries, Jews overwhelmingly support mass immigration.

And yeah, I think what Merkel did was terrible. But keep in mind, all of those immigrants came in legally. Notice how when white ethnicities illegally immigrated to Germany, life pretty much continued as normal. However, when non-white Arabs and Turks legally immigrated, it became a huge problem.

[Celticguy]

So which cultures exactly? Which ethnic groups do you think haven't assimilated?

Middle easterners, some asians, some south and central americans, some africans, some baltics to name a few of those more prone.

[anonymoose]

No, it's because the Jewish establishment in all of these countries want Whites to become the minority.

Why do you think that?

And yeah, I think what Merkel did was terrible. But keep in mind, all of those immigrants came in legally. Notice how when white ethnicities illegally immigrated to Germany, life pretty much continued as normal.

What white ethnicities immigrated illegally to Germany?

However, when non-white Arabs and Turks legally immigrated, it became a huge problem.

I haven't lived there since the mass muslim migration but the Turks have never fully integrated into German society and they started during WWI when Turkey was part of the Central Powers.

[StoneByStone]

Middle easterners, some asians, some south and central americans, some africans, some baltics to name a few of those more prone.

So basically, people who aren't white.
Except Baltics, but I'm not sure why you included them. Do Baltic-Americans often fight for representation? Demand forms of affirmative action? See racism against them everywhere? Self-segregate themselves from other Americans? It would seem that Americans of Baltic ethnic groups just become white Americans.