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Thread: Police in California shot 55 times in 3.5 seconds and killed Willie McCoy.

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    Default Police in California shot 55 times in 3.5 seconds and killed Willie McCoy.

    Police in California shot 55 times in 3.5 seconds and killed Willie McCoy. That's 'reasonable,' report says

    The family attorney for a slain California rapper on Thursday dismissed an independent report that found officers acted reasonably in the February shooting, saying he expected the city of Vallejo would hire an expert to support police.

    The report released this week found that six officers fired 55 times at 20-year-old Willie McCoy in the span of 3.5 seconds shortly after he woke up from sleeping in his car in the drive-thru lane of a Taco Bell restaurant.

    Attorney John Burris told USA TODAY he believed the report was irrelevant, particularly since the hired expert also deemed police had probable cause in the fatal 2018 shooting of Stephon Clark.

    "It only means to me that local police agencies have found a person they can count on to support their position," Burris said.

    The independent use of force report ordered by the city concluded each officer had probable cause to believe McCoy posed an immediate threat.

    The report's author, David Blake, a police consultant and retired peace officer, also wrote that police had reasonable suspicion to detain McCoy, who was found unconscious in his car while in possession of a gun. Blake reviewed video footage and interviewed officers and witnesses to inform his opinions.

    "Officers are not required to wait until a weapon is pointed at them to take the necessary steps to save their own lives," Blake wrote in the report, adding that their actions were "reasonable based upon my training and experience as a range instructor as well as through applied human factors psychology."

    His consulting office did not immediately respond to USA TODAY's request for comment.

    City Attorney Claudia Quintana said the independent report is not expected to affect the investigations by the Vallejo Police Department or Solano County District Attorney's Office. It may take nearly two years for the office to issue a final report, police have previously said.

    The report released this week was prepared in anticipation of civil litigation, Quintana said in an email to USA TODAY.

    Burris has filed a wrongful death and civil rights violation claim against the city. He said a federal lawsuit is also planned.

    The incident, Burris said, is one of more than 10 pending cases he is working that accuse the Vallejo Police Department of racial profiling and excessive force.
    Burris said the independent report will not affect his assessment on McCoy's case.

    "These officers used deathly force tactics," Burris said. "They wake a man up and, before he has a chance to react, they shoot and kill him. That cannot be reasonable."

    By "a chance to react" - Does that mean they're supposed to wait until he pulls the trigger??

    And before everyone decided to just focus on the 55 shots, 55 / 6 = 9.16666 / 3.5 = 2.619 per second.

    Sounds about right for a semi-automatic pistol.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911;3099112 [B
    "Officers are not required to wait until a weapon is pointed at them to take the necessary steps to save their own lives,"[/B] Blake wrote in the report, adding that their actions were "reasonable based upon my training and experience as a range instructor as well as through applied human factors psychology."
    That's a major part of what's wrong with policing in this country. Those rules don't apply to non LEO's. They're citizens just like you and me. Not an exalted class. I get that their job is dangerous, but their rights don't supercede everyone else's. They should be held to the same standards of self defense as your average Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    That's a major part of what's wrong with policing in this country. Those rules don't apply to non LEO's. They're citizens just like you and me. Not an exalted class. I get that their job is dangerous, but their rights don't supercede everyone else's. They should be held to the same standards of self defense as your average Joe.
    REALLY!!

    Please cite the law that says a "non LEO" has to wait until a weapon is POINTED at them, before they can take the necessary steps to save their own life!!
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    REALLY!!

    Please cite the law that says a "non LEO" has to wait until a weapon is POINTED at them, before they can take the necessary steps to save their own life!!
    That's effectively what you're getting in states that have duty to retreat laws. Do the police have a duty to retreat in those states? It's already been determined that they don't have a duty to save or protect individual lives, so retreating should be no big deal right?

    And how well do you think the "he was reaching for his gun" defense would hold up if a non LEO shot someone sleeping in their car because they had a gun in their lap?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    how well do you think the "he was reaching for his gun" defense would hold up if a non LEO shot someone sleeping in their car because they had a gun in their lap?
    Try it and let the forum know how you fare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    REALLY!!

    Please cite the law that says a "non LEO" has to wait until a weapon is POINTED at them, before they can take the necessary steps to save their own life!!
    Looks like SmarterThanFew is back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Try it and let the forum know how you fare.
    After you, sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    After you, sir.
    I'm not the one who posed the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    how well do you think the "he was reaching for his gun" defense would hold up if a non LEO shot someone sleeping in their car because they had a gun in their lap?

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    HIS VEHICLE WAS IN "DRIVE", HE WENT FOR HIS GUN, BUT HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY "ASLEEP"


    A retired peace officer with experience in training police officers in the use of force said the Vallejo police officers' fatal shooting of "rap artist" Willie McCoy, 20, in a Taco Bell drive-through was reasonable and in line with modern training and police practices, the city attorney said.

    City Attorney Claudia Quintana referred to a report by Dave Blake of Brentwood-based Blake Consulting. Quintana posted Blake's report and a news release about it on Vallejo's website.

    Six Vallejo police officers fired 55 rounds in 3.5 seconds at McCoy who was sitting in a silver Mercedes that was still in drive gear.

    The officers had reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause to detain or arrest McCoy for offenses that included carrying a loaded firearm in public, DUI, possession of a firearm under the influence of a controlled substance and resisting, delaying or obstructing a peace officer.

    One of the officers who looked inside the Mercedes-Benz saw a gun in McCoy's lap, and two other officers confirmed it.

    Video footage from various angles makes it clear McCoy sat up, moved both hands toward his lap and then moved his left arm downward. Officers were giving loud verbal commands as McCoy made movements forward in his seat three seconds before shots were fired, Blake said. McCoy's eyes were open and he looked around at the officers before reaching toward the gun.

    Civil rights attorney John Burris, who represents McCoy's family and plans to file a claim against the city of Vallejo, said that police "failed to establish a plan of action to safely remove McCoy from the car and violated longstanding officer safety principles."

    Burris also said he does not understand why the Vallejo police officers refused to take a position of safety to resolve the incident without gunfire.


    http://www.ktvu.com/news/police-who-shot-vallejo-rapper-55-times-in-35-seconds-acted-reasonably-report-found

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I'm not the one who posed the question.
    Or is it because you already know the answer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    Or is it because you already know the answer?
    What makes you ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    That's effectively what you're getting in states that have duty to retreat laws. Do the police have a duty to retreat in those states? It's already been determined that they don't have a duty to save or protect individual lives, so retreating should be no big deal right?

    And how well do you think the "he was reaching for his gun" defense would hold up if a non LEO shot someone sleeping in their car because they had a gun in their lap?
    But you're basing this on a fallacy; because he wasn't ASLEEP, when he reached for his weapon.

    http://www.ktvu.com/news/police-who-shot-vallejo-rapper-55-times-in-35-seconds-acted-reasonably-report-found

    Video footage from various angles makes it clear McCoy sat up, moved both hands toward his lap and then moved his left arm downward. Officers were giving loud verbal commands as McCoy made movements forward in his seat three seconds before shots were fired, Blake said. McCoy's eyes were open and he looked around at the officers before reaching toward the gun.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.

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    55 rounds? That's 9 rounds per officer. WTF! Did some of them reload? That's pathetic, one round would have been sufficient.

    Please cite the law that says a "non LEO" has to wait until a weapon is POINTED at them"

    That's the problem, there isn't one, but apparently there is one for cops.. So yeah, see how far you'd get in court saying you thought he was going for a gun.
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB 60 View Post
    55 rounds? That's 9 rounds per officer. WTF! Did some of them reload? That's pathetic, one round would have been sufficient.

    Please cite the law that says a "non LEO" has to wait until a weapon is POINTED at them"

    That's the problem, there isn't one, but apparently there is one for cops.. So yeah, see how far you'd get in court saying you thought he was going for a gun.
    You do realize that they are trained to continue to fire, until they are either empty or ordered to stop firing and I doubt that the order was given in 3.5 seconds.

    Plus are you aware that there have been times when someone's been shot and the only reason they stopped aggressively advancing, is because they bled out.

    How do you figure that they "reloaded", seeing as how most semiautos magazines hold at least 9+ rounds??

    Hell; I can send 9 rounds down range in 3 seconds, with my Ruger .22 semiauto.
    SEDITION: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by USFREEDOM911 View Post
    You do realize that they are trained to continue to fire, until they are either empty or ordered to stop firing and I doubt that the order was given in 3.5 seconds.

    Plus are you aware that there have been times when someone's been shot and the only reason they stopped aggressively advancing, is because they bled out.

    How do you figure that they "reloaded", seeing as how most semiautos magazines hold at least 9+ rounds??

    Hell; I can send 9 rounds down range in 3 seconds, with my Ruger .22 semiauto.
    If that's how they're trained, their instructors are assholes. If you're stupid enough to empty your gun on one suspect, you'd best hope there's not a second one. As for continuing to fire until an order is given to stop, that is bullshit.

    Yes, I've seen instances where someone on drugs will advance, but not in this case, the guy was in a car.

    No, most police sidearms do not hold 9+ rounds. Few handguns (not counting .22s) do.

    So can I with my M1-A, but that is irrelevant.
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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