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Thread: A primer and discussion of the 14th Amendment, Section 1.

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    Default A primer and discussion of the 14th Amendment, Section 1.

    Amendment 14, Section 1

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


    SO....Lets look at this..

    The 14th Amendment defines citizenship in the first sentence.
    IN the second sentence, it guarantees rights to CITIZENS.

    THEN... there is a semicolon. AFTER THE SEMICOLON, the 14th Amendment gives rights to ANY PERSON.


    Read it, it is clear.

    States are prohibited from taking from ALL PERSONS "Life, liberty, or property, without due process of law or deny ANY PERSON within its jurisdiction of the EQUAL PROTECTION of the laws.


    Are you going to argue that ALL PERSONS and ANY PERSON means only Citizens? If you buy that silly argument, why did the writers of this Amendment separate the two categories with a semicolon?
    Last edited by Jarod; 05-17-2019 at 09:07 AM.
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    Default

    it says all persons born or naturalized, dimwit.

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    It makes clear that "persons" are the citizens.

    A semicolon is used between two closely related independent clauses. Both clauses are RELATED. It's not introducing something DIFFERENT.

    Example:
    I washed my car; I still need to vacuum the inside.

    The entire subject revolves around citizens.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens....."

    Only CITIZENS are subject to the jurisdiction thereof! This not about non-citizens wondering into our country.

    You're welcome.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    it says all persons born or naturalized, dimwit.
    Before the semicolon. At that point it says, "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" then there is a semicolon and a new subject of people called "ALL PERSONS" and "ANY PERSON".
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    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    It makes clear that "persons" are the citizens.

    A semicolon is used between two closely related independent clauses. Both clauses are RELATED. It's not introducing something DIFFERENT.

    Example:
    I washed my car; I still need to vacuum the inside.

    The entire subject revolves around citizens.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens....."

    Only CITIZENS are subject to the jurisdiction thereof! This not about non-citizens wondering into our country.

    You're welcome.
    Simply unture, if that were the case, why the semicolon separating the restrictions on States, why two categories? It clearly defines two categories, Citizens and then ALL PERSONS.
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Default

    Well, no, it doesn’t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    It makes clear that "persons" are the citizens.

    A semicolon is used between two closely related independent clauses. Both clauses are RELATED. It's not introducing something DIFFERENT.

    Example:
    I washed my car; I still need to vacuum the inside.

    The entire subject revolves around citizens.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens....."

    Only CITIZENS are subject to the jurisdiction thereof! This not about non-citizens wondering into our country.

    You're welcome.
    Simply untrue, otherwise the writer would not offer new words. The Clear meaning of ALL PERSONS is not Citizens. The clauses are related but it separates rights given to Citizens from those given to ALL PERSONS, otherwise why separate them. The only difference is what class of people get the rights, otherwise it would have simply listed the rights in a single clause.
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl View Post
    Well, no, it doesn’t.
    Brilliant argument.
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    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


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    Why did the author separate rights given to Citizens from those given to ALL PERSONS if your silly claim that Citizens = ALL PERSONS is true?
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Simply unture, if that were the case, why the semicolon separating the restrictions on States, why two categories? It clearly defines two categories, Citizens and then ALL PERSONS.
    Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang
    I just explained it. A semicolon does not mean "but" (and then changes the subject to something opposite). It's all one continuing thought and declaration.

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens..."
    Therefore, CITIZENS ARE THEREAFTER REFERRED TO AS PERSONS.
    Got it?
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Simply untrue, otherwise the writer would not offer new words. The Clear meaning of ALL PERSONS is not Citizens. The clauses are related but it separates rights given to Citizens from those given to ALL PERSONS, otherwise why separate them. The only difference is what class of people get the rights, otherwise it would have simply listed the rights in a single clause.
    WRONG
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



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    Trump rewrite: Bat out a tail light, yank them out of the car, smash their heads on the hood, toss in some cocaine you stole
    from the evidence locker and book 'em Danno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang
    I just explained it. A semicolon does not mean "but" (and then changes the subject to something opposite). It's all one continuing thought and declaration.

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens..."
    Therefore, CITIZENS ARE THEREAFTER REFERRED TO AS PERSONS.
    Got it?
    Then using your explanation this phrase... "nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"... can be interpreted as the state can deprive any person who is not a citizen of life, liberty or property without due process of law.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
    It makes clear that "persons" are the citizens.

    A semicolon is used between two closely related independent clauses. Both clauses are RELATED. It's not introducing something DIFFERENT.

    Example:
    I washed my car; I still need to vacuum the inside.

    The entire subject revolves around citizens.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens....."

    Only CITIZENS are subject to the jurisdiction thereof! This not about non-citizens wondering into our country.

    You're welcome.
    Your car is a vacuum?
    "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."

    "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do."

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    GayRod, why was this Amendment passed? Who was this Amendment directed towards?

    Do you know the history of the Amendment GayRod? Are you going to say the history doesn't matter? Are you going to say that the context under which this was written doesn't matter?

    It's OK if you want to say that GayRod. I just want you to go on record doing so

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