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Thread: Adversity Score

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    The SAT will soon begin reporting aspects of a student's background to colleges, in order to allow the college to factor it into admissions decisions. The idea is that someone who came from a privileged family and got great SAT scores may actually be less impressive than someone who came from a very difficult background and got merely good scores.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/us/sa...ore/index.html

    I like the overall idea, including as an alternative to race-based affirmative action. In school I knew some kids who were from a dirt-poor immigrant family, dealing with language, social, and economic obstacles, and yet when universities looked at them, they were just generically viewed as "Asian," and judged by harder standards than other applicants. Meanwhile, I had a friend who was the child of two doctors, whose grandparents had also gone to college, and who grew up with all the advantages money could buy. But, when colleges looked at her, she was "African American" and so assumed to have overcome major socioeconomic obstacles. Race-based affirmative action is probably better than making no attempt to address systemic racism, since it will diminish inequities more often than it will exacerbate them, just as a statistical reality. But more individualized approaches are superior.

    Having said that, I question the way this particular plan is being set up. Specifically, the factors include "the crime rate and poverty levels of a student's high school and neighborhood." That's not terribly individualized, either. Consider two hypothetical students:

    Student A comes from a poor family. They live in a space above the family's little restaurant, where the kids work in the evenings to help make ends meet. The restaurant, however, is in a pretty nice neighborhood... by design, since the family was desperate to get into a good school system, even if it meant cramming six people into a 900 square foot space and working themselves to the bone. (note, this hypothetical is based on a second cousin of mine)

    Student B comes from a rich family. In fact, it's the wealthiest family in a whole county -- a rural county where they own the local car dealership and the patriarch is the mayor of the town. However, the town itself is pretty run-down. (note, this hypothetical is based on someone I knew in college).

    Which of the two really overcame the most? Was it the one from the family scrimping and saving to live a spartan life in an expensive neighborhood, or the one living like feudal lords of an economically depressed kingdom? I'd argue that the first student overcame a lot more. You can live in a lousy town and attend a crummy school, but if you can afford to live in a gated community within that town and get expensive tutoring and enrichment opportunities, setting doesn't matter so much. In fact, you could be better off as a rich person in a poor neighborhood than a rich person in a rich one, given weaker academic competition and the ability of your dollar to go farther.

    So, I'd argue in favor of an "adversity score" that was based strictly on money. Simply consider the parents' income over the prior five years, for example, and assign a score based on that. That's going to be the best realistic proxy for how much adversity the student likely faced.
    College admissions should be based on just one thing. SAT scores. Politics has no place in such decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    it's STILL used as a base score// There is no good reason to adjust test scores -Universities are going to keep that adjustment secret, some will use it some wont/ how will applicant know? they won't

    Why make the SAT into a social adjustment, when social adjustments can be made on circumstance like they aer now?
    They're providing the universities an index they can use or not. In theory, each university could do its own research about each applicant and come up with its own index to use. But surely you can see how that would be less efficient than having it done in by the testers, and then having the individual universities decide how to factor that in.

    Here's another sports analogy. In the NFL, the league holds a "combine" where they apply various tests. Not ever team uses every piece of data for every prospect, I'm sure. For example, maybe you don't think the Wonderlic really matters. And certainly it would be possible to individual teams to require individual tests, instead. But it would be inefficient. If a significant number of teams want a particular test, it's more efficient for the test to be administered at the combine, rather than leaving it to the individual teams. In the same way, it's more efficient for one outfit to compile a "disadvantage" index, using a consistent metric, for all the applicants, than for each school to do so separately.

    I get why this is stressing conservatives out. They're worried that it might advantage "those people." That's the defining piece of thinking of the modern US conservative movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    So, you want parents to turn over five years of tax returns to the SAT people? Moron.
    Note that you offered no argument at all -- just a personal insult. Your indirect admission of defeat is acknowledged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Think so? Since there's no evident indication of any "struggle", it's telling that you claim to have discerned something that didn't exist.
    The evidence of your struggle was overwhelming. Go back and reread. You should be able to spot it.

  5. The Following User Groans At Oneuli For This Awful Post:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    The evidence of your struggle was overwhelming. Go back and reread. You should be able to spot it.
    So you say. If the alleged "evidence" was "overwhelming", you should be able to cite it.

    Go back and try again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    "Essentially."

    It appears that your issue is with the availability of coaching to those with the drive and ambition to obtain it.
    It's not about drive and ambition. It's about family money. If person A is holding down an evening job to help the family make ends meet, and person B is using that same time receiving professional one-on-one test prep, and they score anywhere nearly each other, a university would be wise to bet on person A.

    I would like to know who told you that "rich families are a lot more aware of the option to get a friendly doctor to diagnose the kid with a condition that allows for an untimed test."
    The rich families I know. Presumably you don't know any, or you'd be aware of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grugore View Post
    College admissions should be based on just one thing.
    Well, then by all means start your own university and use that single-factor
    admissions criterion and see how it goes. As you presumably know, though, no real-world university functions that way. They all consider a host of criteria, such as legacy status, parental donations, athletic potential, musical or dramatic skills, ability to pay, geographic and ethnic diversity, GPA, high school course load, essays, interviews, extra-curriculars, prizes and academic honors won, other academic tests, planned major, and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    So you say. If the alleged "evidence" was "overwhelming", you should be able to cite it.

    Go back and try again.
    I can. Reread your response to my argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    I can. Reread you response to my argument.
    No citation exists in your response, as you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    Well, then by all means start your own university and use that single-factor
    admissions criterion and see how it goes. As you presumably know, though, no real-world university functions that way. They all consider a host of criteria, such as legacy status, parental donations, athletic potential, musical or dramatic skills, ability to pay, geographic and ethnic diversity, GPA, high school course load, essays, interviews, extra-curriculars, prizes and academic honors won, other academic tests, planned major, and so on.
    What! I thought liberals wanted a free college education for anyone who wants one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    No citation exists in your response, as you know.
    I'm citing your response. Reread it and you should be able to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grugore View Post
    What! I thought liberals wanted a free college education for anyone who wants one.
    Did you suffer some sort of stroke? Your comment is such a bizarre non sequitur that I'm forced to wonder about cerebral hemorrhage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    It's not about drive and ambition. It's about family money. If person A is holding down an evening job to help the family make ends meet, and person B is using that same time receiving professional one-on-one test prep, and they score anywhere nearly each other, a university would be wise to bet on person A.
    So you say. It's possible for someone struggling with poverty to overcome adversity by working hard and sacrificing so that their children can afford Kaplan or the Princeton Review coaching that will give them improved test scoring, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    The rich families I know.
    Name them and list their contact information. If you refuse, there's no proof that you actually know them, is there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    Did you suffer some sort of stroke? Your comment is such a bizarre non sequitur that I'm forced to wonder about cerebral hemorrhage.
    You are the one who brought up all those qualifications for college. I was simply remnding you that liberals want free college for everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneuli View Post
    Did you suffer some sort of stroke? Your comment is such a bizarre non sequitur that I'm forced to wonder about cerebral hemorrhage.
    Are you unaware of the positions of leading DEMOCRATS?

    https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/bernie-sanders-at-alabama-rally-on-sunday.html

    https://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18509196/elizabeth-warren-debt-free-college

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