Dukkha is more than suffering.

[Cypress]

Can we treat Buddhism as a branch of philosophy or psychology?

No, it's better to say philosophy or psychological are just a small branch of Buddhism since Buddhism teachings are giving more than 2500 years ago while most philosophy and psychology are known more recently, and Buddhism teachings are much more than philosophy and psychology. The Buddha's teachings covered everything needed to be known by men, whether one use it for just the present moment, a life time or beyond life and after life. Best of all, the Buddha's teachings can be practiced and experienced and nothing found to be wrong or bad.

It does not have to be an either/or.

Most religions are infused with philosophical-thinking. Buddhism is first and foremost a religion. But the Buddhist and Daoist cannon, along with the Baghavad Gita most certainly have philosophical elements in them.

Christian philosophers borrowed heavily from Plato and Aristotle.

The fact actually is, until about the 16th century, philosophy, theology, religion were part and parcel of the same intellectualtradition.s and the Church Fathers

[anatta]

It does not have to be an either/or.

Most religions are infused with philosophical-thinking. Buddhism is first and foremost a religion. But the Buddhist and Daoist cannon, along with the Baghavad Gita most certainly have philosophical elements in them.

Christian philosophers borrowed heavily from Plato and Aristotle.

The fact actually is, until about the 16th century, philosophy, theology, religion were part and parcel of the same intellectualtradition.s and the Church Fathers

yes. that was what the post was saying.
but i agree and it's how I became a Buddhist. I started from the philosophical underpinning of karma/Noble Path as a virtue lifestyle
Eventually I internalized it and it became my day to day religion, though I still cling to Christianity salvation
I know it's a contradiction. I've learned to live with it

[Cypress]

yes. that was what the post was saying.
but i agree and it's how I became a Buddhist. I started from the philosophical underpinning of karma/Noble Path as a virtue lifestyle
Eventually I internalized it and it became my day to day religion, though I still cling to Christianity salvation
I know it's a contradiction. I've learned to live with it

I do not think there is any rule against a desire to mix and juxtapose the traditions of different religions together in achieving a personal perspective on spiritual truth. Religious syncretism is part and parcel of the human experience.

In the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna says “humans come to me in different ways, but whatever path they choose is mine.”

[anatta]

I do not think there is any rule against a desire to mix and juxtapose the traditions of different religions together in achieving a personal perspective on spiritual truth. Religious syncretism is part and parcel of the human experience.

In the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna says “humans come to me in different ways, but whatever path they choose is mine.”

nice quote. The conflict of course is there is no soul/self in Buddhism ( just samsara or enlightenment)
whereas Xtians believe in the eternal soul and the ressurection ..

I figure I can still get the benefits of a bhodi life, and let the universe/God sort it out later..
it's above my pay grade so to speak

And "love one another " ( Jesus) is the ultimate compassion

[Cypress]

nice quote. The conflict of course is there is no soul/self in Buddhism ( just samsara or enlightenment)
whereas Xtians believe in the eternal soul and the ressurection ..

I figure I can still get the benefits of a bhodi life, and let the universe/God sort it out later..
it's above my pay grade so to speak

And "love one another " ( Jesus) is the ultimate compassion

Right, I do not see any reason or rule that someone cannot aspire to incorporate the wisdom and ethical traditions of various religious traditions. Syncretism has been practiced by humans as long as there are historical records.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn once famously said that all religions just represent different faces of a God, who is endlessly multidimensional and exists outside of time and space.

[dukkha]

Right, I do not see any reason or rule that someone cannot aspire to incorporate the wisdom and ethical traditions of various religious traditions. Syncretism has been practiced by humans as long as there are historical records.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn once famously said that all religions just represent different faces of a God, who is endlessly multidimensional and exists outside of time and space.

another nice quote! ( i do enjoy speaking with you on these matters)

well there is that thing about "false gods" in the old testament, but the new testament is what Christians follow
Common sense says that whatever helps you to be a good person ( moral/ethical) is a noble endeavor
We need not predict outcomes; all we are required to do is to deliver our best efforts

[Cypress]

another nice quote! ( i do enjoy speaking with you on these matters)

well there is that thing about "false gods" in the old testament, but the new testament is what Christians follow
Common sense says that whatever helps you to be a good person ( moral/ethical) is a noble endeavor
We need not predict outcomes; all we are required to do is to deliver our best efforts

Thanks.

I cannot say I see Buddhism as strictly incompatible with Christianity. In principle, Buddhism is silent about a universal God.

The Mahayana strain of Buddhism posits the existence of spiritual deities, but let's face it, Christianity in practice and in theology is damn near a polytheisistic tradition itself. The Trinity, the veneration of saints, and the quasi-deification of the Virgin Mary are all vaguely polytheistic.

I have not researched it, but I would bet dollars to donuts that there are Christian sects in East Asia who syncretically blend elements of indigenous Buddhism into their Christian practice and ritual.

[dukkha]

Thanks.

I cannot say I see Buddhism as strictly incompatible with Christianity. In principle, Buddhism is silent about a universal God.

absolutely true. demigods rule the Desire Realm' but they have no power other then that realm
Then there is the Form Realm (rūpa-loka), and the Formless Realm (ārūpya-loka). the latter is blown out enlightenment

The Mahayana strain of Buddhism posits the existence of spiritual deities, but let's face it, Christianity in practice and in theology is damn near a polytheisistic tradition itself. The Trinity, the veneration of saints, and the quasi-deification of the Virgin Mary are all vaguely polytheistic.

they are all integral parts of Christianity, although the quasi deification of Mary could be bodhisattva .
But I get what you mean when humans worship others as a god

I have not researched it, but I would bet dollars to donuts that there are Christian sects in East Asia who syncretically blend elements of indigenous Buddhism into their Christian practice and ritual.

interesting. it's quite possible in Africa as well

[dukkha]

Buddha told Rohitassa

The end of the world can never
Be reached by walking. However,
Without having reached the world’s end
There is no release from suffering.”
~~
https://www.quora.com/What-is-someth...t-is-permanent
what is an example of something that is permanent?

If change stopped at the question there would be no answer, nothing to think about.
Every thought has a beginning and end and, the gaps in—between thought/thoughts.

There's the journey—work of the cosmos, the beginnings/endings of universes’—worlds without end.
Permanent and 'timeless’ aren't synonyms.

“We read that the Buddha said

“I declare that it is in this fathom long body with its perceptions and mind, there is the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world, and the path leading to the cessation of the world.”

A More Precise Translation

For it is in this fathom-long body/corpse, with its perception and mind, that I make known/declare/recognise the world, its arising, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation. (…)

[dukkha]

Go to the forest and find me a perfect tree.

Find the tree which is perfectly straight, all the branches are brown, and all the leaves are green.

Such a tree DOES NOT EXIST in the forest.

All the trees are bent and crooked.

They've got branches hanging off.

And the bark are all scars and wounds.

Those are called natural trees.

And they are really beautiful.

The perfect trees aren’t beautiful.

The ones that are crooked and wounded are the beautiful ones.

And there’s no one in this room who is perfect. You are all crooked and bent.

That’s why you are beautiful.

The Dhamma wants to encourage you to love yourself as you are.

It’s kind.

So don’t think that something is wrong with you.

You are a beautiful crooked tree in the forest.

That is why the Dhamma is kind to you.”

Source: Ajahn Brahm

[dukkha]

Tibetan Buddhism or more accurately Vajrayana Buddhism still survives fully in the entire Cis-Himalayana region from Kasmir through Nepal to Arunachal .
The older Sanskrit form of Vajrayana still survives in the Kathmandu Valley of Nepal but albeit a bit weakened due to almost a millenia of Hindu kings ‘persecution but effort is being made to revive it to it’s full glory
It does survive amongst the Tibetan Diaspora in Nepal and India and in various parts of the world .

( China tries to stamp it out and the Dalai Lama has moved to Dharmasala, India)

[T. A. Gardner]

[T. A. Gardner]

I'm Shakyamuni Buddhist, and I see the meaning of life is fulfilment for yourself and those around you, particularly those around you. Do what you love and others will love you for it. Come to know yourself and be at peace with that. For all the scars and wounds in life that you receive, you should prevail and show others that they too, like you, can accept this as the natural order.

If life were easy, there would be no reason to live.

[dukkha]

Life is a good teacher and a good friend. Things are always in transition, if we could only realize it. Nothing ever sums itself up in the way that we like to dream about. The off-center, in-between state is an ideal situation, a situation in which we don’t get caught and we can open our hearts and minds beyond limit. It’s a very tender, nonaggressive, open-ended state of affairs.

To stay with that shakiness — to stay with a broken heart, with a rumbling stomach, with the feeling of hopelessness and wanting to get revenge — that is the path of true awakening. Sticking with that uncertainty, getting the knack of relaxing in the midst of chaos, learning not to panic — this is the spiritual path. Getting the knack of catching ourselves, of gently and compassionately catching ourselves, is the path of the warrior. We catch ourselves one zillion times as once again, whether we like it or not, we harden into resentment, bitterness, righteous indignation — harden in any way, even into a sense of relief, a sense of inspiration.

Half a century after Alan Watts began introducing Eastern teachings into the West with his clarion call for presence as the antidote to anxiety, Chödrön points to the present moment — however uncertain, however difficult — as the sole seedbed of wakefulness to all of life:

This very moment is the perfect teacher, and it’s always with us.

[…]

We can be with what’s happening and not dissociate. Awakeness is found in our pleasure and our pain, our confusion and our wisdom, available in each moment of our weird, unfathomable, ordinary everyday lives.

Illustration by Lisbeth Zwerger from a special edition of the Brothers Grimm fairy tales.

Remaining present and intimate with the moment, she argues, requires mastering maitri — the Buddhist practice of loving-kindness toward oneself, that most difficult art of self-compassion. She contrasts maitri with the typical Western therapy and self-help method of handling crises:

What makes maitri such a different approach is that we are not trying to solve a problem. We are not striving to make pain go away or to become a better person. In fact, we are giving up control altogether and letting concepts and ideals fall apart. This starts with realizing that whatever occurs is neither the beginning nor the end. It is just the same kind of normal human experience that’s been happening to everyday people from the beginning of time. Thoughts, emotions, moods, and memories come and they go, and basic nowness is always here.

[…]

In the midst of all the heavy dialogue with ourselves, open space is always there.

Another Buddhist concept at odds with our Western coping mechanisms is the Tibetan expression ye tang che. Chödrön explains its connotations, evocative of Camus’s insistence on the vitalizing power of despair:

The ye part means “totally, completely,” and the rest of it means “exhausted.” Altogether, ye tang che means totally tired out. We might say “totally fed up.” It describes an experience of complete hopelessness, of completely giving up hope. This is an important point. This is the beginning of the beginning. Without giving up hope — that there’s somewhere better to be, that there’s someone better to be — we will never relax with where we are or who we are.

[…]

Suffering begins to dissolve when we can question the belief or the hope that there’s anywhere to hide.

[dukkha]

Meditating under a beautiful pippala tree, Siddhartha had the sense that sometime that night he would realize full enlightenment and become a Buddha. Suddenly, Mara appeared. Mara sometimes appears as doubt, sometimes as anger, darkness, jealousy, craving, or despair.
When we feel doubtful or skeptical, he is there. When we feel angry, irritated, or lacking in self-confidence, that is Mara. Siddhartha had been visited by Mara many times before, and he knew that the best way to treat him was to be very gentle.

That day Mara came in the form of skepticism. He said, "Who do you think you are? Do you think you can attain great enlightenment? -- Don't you realize how much darkness, despair, and confusion there is in the world? How can you hope to dissipate all of it?" Siddhartha smiled, expressing great confidence.
Mara continued, "I know you have practiced, but have you practiced enough? Who will witness that you have practiced long and hard enough? Who will testify that you can gain enlightenment?" Mara demanded that someone confirm that Siddhartha was going to become a Buddha, a fully awakened person.

- At that moment, Siddhartha touched the Earth with his right hand, very deeply, with all his mindfulness, and said, "The Earth will testify for me." Suddenly, the Earth trembled and appeared as a goddess, offering him flowers, leaves, fruits, and perfumes.
After that, Earth looked directly at Mara, and Mara just disappeared.