Why Most Republicans Don’t Like Higher Education

[Into the Night]

Is there ANY evidence liberals do?

Sure. All the liberals that hold degrees in math and science.

[domer76]

Sure there is. All the republicans out there who hold degrees in math and science.

All 5 of them?

[MAGA MAN]

Post #69, lying cunt.

Post 67, you made a claim.

What has it been, five times now that you've avoided having to address that? Clearly, my response in post 69 hit its mark. lol

[domer76]

Post 67, you made a claim.

What has it been, five times now that you've avoided having to address that? Clearly, my response in post 69 hit its mark. lol

Sad, lying cunt.

“Da door! Da door!”

[MAGA MAN]

Sure. All the liberals that hold degrees in math and science.

All five of them?

[MAGA MAN]

I'm a sad, lying cunt.

[Into the Night]

No you are mixing up socialism and state capitalism. Under working class control there can be no slavery.

There is no such thing as 'state capitalism'. Capitalism requires no government. It is the only economic system that creates wealth. Socialism can only exist by stealing wealth, and requires dictatorships or oligarchies to implement it.

[domer76]

Sad lying, Tattoo

[Into the Night]

Homesteading is a whole other fantasy, no longer relevant. The theft is of a large psrt of the reward of labour by those who do none.

Did you know that homesteading still happens? You are right about the theft.

[Into the Night]

socialism is not a form of government at all. It gets rid of government.

WRONG. Socialism is theft of wealth. It can ONLY be implemented by dictatorships and oligarchies. That is government, dude.

[MAGA MAN]

I'm sad and lying, but I have this neat Tattoo

.

[Into the Night]

Under capitalism there can be no real freedom for anyone, unfortunately. I'm afraid that since McCarthy Americans have been prevented from knowing about the alternative.

WRONG. Capitalism is freedom to create what you want, and to sell it for what you can get for it. It is the freedom to create new products and markets that never existed before. It is the freedom to create wealth. It requires no government to implement it. It is capitalism that brings civilization out of the jungle.

[Into the Night]

All five of them?

Heh. There are considerably more than five. Remember, I live in Seattle. There's quite a few of them here, you know.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Part Multi 313,

You got that backwards. Democrats are the ones against freedom, education and self defense. You are right that Republicans are in it for the money but aren't the oversimplified thing you say they are. Republicans open the way for new wealth while Democrats will stop new wealth at every turn, liquidizing your earnings and redistributing it. Democrats turn government into an overbearing presence dictating everything. Republicans aren't gonna hold your hand and sure you might get into some fights in your climb up the corporate ladder, but Republicans aren't going to shut it all down and declare martial law and then ransack your surplus until everyone is nearly naked and living on a coupon book.

You can say anything. Words are cheap. That doesn't make them true. I noticed you appear to believe that redistributing wealth is the same as destroying it. As if that wealth is never to be seen again.

Not true.

Actually, what happens when wealth is redistributed from the super-wealth and to the poor it's not like the poor just get this wealth and then sit on it as if that wealth vanished. No. The money is not thrown in a pile and lit on fire. It is not destroyed. Not at all.

Actually, what happens is nearly every cent of it is pretty much immediately spent on products and services offered by the wealthy. Why, what this represents is demand. It's business. It's customers for local businesses and also for big corporations. Every dollar cycled through the social programs to help the disadvantaged pretty much goes right back into circulation creating demand for businesses which then create jobs and hire. And they generate profits and pay taxes. It generates new revenue to help control the federal debt, which, by the way, under Republican policy is growing too rapidly.

A dollar spent on social programs is spent and respent at least six times, generating demand, jobs and revenue. Goes right into the active economy. It adds $6 to the GDP. That's a far cry better than letting it ride on some Wall Street investments which is all the rich are going to do with it.

[gfm7175]

Hello gfm7175,

Same reason we all pay for public K-12 school whether we have children or not. Because it is good for the society we live in, so it is good for all of us.

That shouldn't be happening either... Schools shouldn't be commie training centers; they should be privatized.

Completely anecdotal, but once I got to high school, it was clear as day which kids came from the city's public school and which kids came from the city's two private schools. The public school kids had never diagrammed sentences before, while I did that in like 5th grade already. They hadn't read To Kill A Mockingbird, while I did that in like 5th or 6th grade already. They didn't understand Algebra, while I had already done that throughout grade school... There's numerous other examples, but the point is that the public school kids were all LIGHT YEARS behind the private school kids in terms of education level...

Mincing words, now? Whatever.

Nothing being "minced"... It's disingenuous to call something "free" when it is anything BUT free...

Call it tuition-paid college. Call it public college. I don't care what you want to call it.

Public College would be better (accurate) terminology. I'm fine with calling it that.

It is what we need to do. K-12 becomes K-16. Done deal. Progress. Making America great again.

How is that "progress"?? Wouldn't that just be 'change'?? But yes, I think we now agree what is being proposed (K-16). That means increased taxes; increased burden for everyone, especially the poorer. I would, instead, propose more charitable donations, more grants, and etc... People willingly assisting in making education a bit more affordable, instead of compulsion through taxation.

You have only calculated the cost, and ignored the benefit.

Well, I didn't even calculate the cost; I just threw out a bunch of random numbers to convey an underlying point of increased burden on taxpayers.

You have incorrectly assumed that there is no benefit to society, the economy and the GDP. There is a benefit.

What benefit?

This oversight, from the same mindset that heralds big corporate CEOs as these amazingly smart people who create jobs.

They ARE, though...

But they would be nothing without their college educations, now would they.

Maybe... maybe not...

If a college education allows these special people to create jobs, create wealth for themselves and others, why can't somebody else do the same thing?

Because people are not equal. They do not have equal talents/abilities/intelligence/etc. etc... Many people could never be a CEO no matter how much education/training they receive...

For many, this will make the difference. Paid college tuition gives them the head start that makes the difference. Or is this something you feel should only be available to the super-rich...

No, it doesn't. Just being present at a university doesn't change someone's natural limitations with regards to intelligence/talent/ability/yadda yadda...

There is nothing unclear about it. And nothing sneaky. This is a wide open public debate.

Calling it "free" when it is anything BUT free is quite sneaky if you ask me...

Yes. Just like when people who paid for their own K-12 schooling began to pay property taxes, which then paid for the free public schools.

You know how much better off people would be financially if they could just pay for their own private schooling as they go along (and then be completely done with it) instead of having to pay for private schooling PLUS public schooling (for life through taxes)?? Schools would also learn how to make best/efficient use of the resources they do have instead of constantly increasing their spending to the max due to being publicly funded rather than user funded. Plus, once again, that would be an example of self-governance rather than compulsion...

And the individual. I hope you are not proposing to dictate to people what degree people should pursue.

Oh hell no... I'm not sure where you're getting that suspicion from, as I have repeatedly promoted self-governance over compulsion in our correspondence. If anyone, it would likely be Marxist Leftists who would attempt to do such a thing, given their tendency towards compulsion.

I don't think you have considered the potential here. The nation needs doctors. We are going to need more qualified GP doctors to meet the demand of universal healthcare. Tuition-paid college could help churn out great numbers of new doctors to meet that demand without having all the new students shackled in debt to Wall Street.

Again, I think there are better ways other than compulsion to achieve that goal.

The only way they can possibly pay more into the system would be because they are out there earning more money than they would if they didn't have a degree. Smart people with college degrees start businesses.

Except for all the businesses started by smart people without college degrees, right?

Those businesses create jobs. All those workers pay into the system when they pay their taxes. More people earning more money would generate more revenue. The net revenue generated would exceed the government spending on college tuition. It becomes a net gain for the economy.

Not sure how you are determining all of this to be the case...

Conversely, if you don't help people, and you just leave them on their own, without college degrees some of them are likely to get into trouble. They might run afoul of the law.

Same if they DID have college degrees...

We might have to spend even more tax money for police to bring them to justice, courts to adjudicate them, prisons to lock them up. The USA has the largest prison system in the world. It is also the most costly system in the world. You either give people the tools they need to succeed, or you pay to support them or incarcerate them when they don't. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Not sure how college stops or even reduces people from being criminals; I'm not seeing the connection...

Guess what else happens? When you let people flounder like that, they have kids. But they don't always make the best parents. So their kids take after their parents. More social problems down the road.

Sounds like cultural issues to me, rather than education issues... Maybe marriage should be a little more sacred, maybe the nuclear family unit should be a little more sacred, maybe responsible sexual activity should be a little more sacred?? ... ...

Public education, or the lack of it, has serious ramifications extending far beyond how much it costs in increased taxes.

There's public education all over the place [at the K-12 level anyway], and it is producing lesser results than private schooling is producing...

Basically, it's either pay a little extra to do this now, or pay a lot more extra later to suffer the consequences of not doing it.

Pascal's Wager Fallacy.

EDUCATION PREVENTS PRISONS.

College courses do not prevent prisons...

You said nothing is free and it is true.

Making America great again isn't free, either.

What.

Did you think you can have a great nation for free?

Never asserted such a thing...

Allowing education to get prohibitively expensive is placing roadblocks to success. We could be cutting the nation off from the next amazing whizzkid. Bill Gates had a college education. We could be stifling the achievements of the next Bill Gates. You have no idea the potential we would are ensuring would never be realized by not having universal tuition-paid public college. I am not letting you cut us off from this. I am voting for someone who supports this excellent idea. I can see the potential.

Nothing is being cut off... The people still exist, and there are other options besides compulsion to give those people access to education, such as grants and loans...

I do find the bolded language to be interesting though, because isn't that what legalized abortion has been doing for many decades now??

It's just like when we had no public schools and then after it began we had the industrial age. Now it is time to up the ante and go up a level. It's the right thing to do at the right time.

The Industrial Revolution started and occurred well before nationwide public education ever became a thing...