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Thread: What Is So Great About Unsustainably High Deficit Levels? And Exploding Student Debt?

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    Default What Is So Great About Unsustainably High Deficit Levels? And Exploding Student Debt?

    Our economy is propped up by constantly rising debt which cannot be maintained.

    We are not taxing the rich enough to carry the rest or balance the budget. Not even close.

    A Trillion dollar deficit for 329 million people can be reduced to simple math.

    $1,000,000,000,000 / 329,000,000 = $3039.51 per person.

    Obviously, every earner in the USA cannot come up with 3K for every person in their household.

    That's how much taxes would have to be raised to balance the current budget.

    It is not sustainable.

    Debt vs GDP is growing.

    That means our economy is based on constantly increasing the amount of debt compared to the size of our economy.

    Gross debt / GDP ratio is now 105.45%.

    US Debt Clock

    Keep an eye on that. What happens if we allow that to continue growing?

    Can we sustain a debt of 200% of our GDP? 400%? 1000% ???

    Where do you draw the line?

    Obviously we cannot allow this ratio, Debt/GDP, to constantly rise.

    We lean on debt when we need to - to get us through bad times.

    Using it to artificially pump up the economy during good times is irresponsible.

    The Trump tax cut was irresponsible.

    The longer it takes before we admit that, the deeper the hole we dig.

    We cannot have an economy which depends on that level of rising debt. It's not just the amount of debt. It is the rate at which it is rising that is alarming.

    PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

    And the exploding Student Loan debt is also going in the wrong direction. That punishes success. We need to reward doing well in school, not saddle them with crushing debt. That hurts the economy. Then when they get a job they can't afford to buy anything. They are too busy paying off their loans.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    (R)s don't give a shit about deficits -- until a (D) is in the WH. In fact, they *prefer* high deficits so they can use them as an excuse to cut so-called entitlement programs like Medicare and Social Security, among others. Apparently we need more bloated defense contractor wallets, and less senior citizens and our demands for food and health care.

    Republicans also love exploding student loan debt, for various reasons. 1. Makes lenders very happy to rake in all that interest. 2. It makes younger ppl very unhappy, and thus far more susceptible to the whisperings of "Think how great it will be if we can cut those old people off; you'll have more of your own money to spend."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    (R)s don't give a shit about deficits -- until a (D) is in the WH. In fact, they *prefer* high deficits so they can use them as an excuse to cut so-called entitlement programs like Medicare and Social Security, among others. Apparently we need more bloated defense contractor wallets, and less senior citizens and our demands for food and health care.

    Republicans also love exploding student loan debt, for various reasons. 1. Makes lenders very happy to rake in all that interest. 2. It makes younger ppl very unhappy, and thus far more susceptible to the whisperings of "Think how great it will be if we can cut those old people off; you'll have more of your own money to spend."
    Sadly, for many R's, that is true.

    But there are plenty of fiscal conservatives on both sides. And it is time for fiscal conservatives of all stripes to SPEAK OUT LOUDLY against this insanity.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    If only those who benefited overall from Republican economic policies voted for Republicans, then there might not even be a single Republican in public office.
    Those who benefit from Republican economic policy are tiny in number, and even there, the benefit is short term leading to ultimate disaster.

    Republicans absolutely depend on their brain dead minions to vote directly AGAINST their own economic best interests.

    What's more, they find it easy to get these zombies to do that.

    They just tell them that they're actually better than somebody--ethnic minorities, immigrants, gays, you name it.

    These slugs--racists, misogynists, xenophobes, theocrats, anti-intellectuals--are at the bottom of humanity's barrel,
    but a pigfucker like Trump tells them that they're actually better than somebody--even though they're clearly not better than anybody,
    and the ignorant cretins are anxious to believe it.

    They'd rather think that they're better than somebody than accept liberal policies that actually would improve their situation.

    There's no getting through to troglodytes like that. We must simply get out a larger vote. Not voting is equivalent to voting as they do.

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    Hello NiftyNiblick,

    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    If only those who benefited overall from Republican economic policies voted for Republicans, then there might not even be a single Republican in public office.
    Those who benefit from Republican economic policy are tiny in number, and even there, the benefit is short term leading to ultimate disaster.

    Republicans absolutely depend on their brain dead minions to vote directly AGAINST their own economic best interests.

    What's more, they find it easy to get these zombies to do that.

    They just tell them that they're actually better than somebody--ethnic minorities, immigrants, gays, you name it.

    These slugs--racists, misogynists, xenophobes, theocrats, anti-intellectuals--are at the bottom of humanity's barrel,
    but a pigfucker like Trump tells them that they're actually better than somebody--even though they're clearly not better than anybody,
    and the ignorant cretins are anxious to believe it.

    They'd rather think that they're better than somebody than accept liberal policies that actually would improve their situation.

    There's no getting through to troglodytes like that. We must simply get out a larger vote. Not voting is equivalent to voting as they do.
    Well, here's the problem with that, Nifty.

    Hatred is a better motivator than an intellectual discussion.

    Fear will get people to the polls.

    A comprehensive analysis of the situation puts them to sleep.

    There are a lot of people with a short attention span.

    Maybe Trump will put the fear into some sleepy liberals and get them to the polls in vast numbers.

    A big election turn out and Trump is toast.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post

    A comprehensive analysis of the situation puts them to sleep.

    There are a lot of people with a short attention span.
    So depressingly true, PolyTalker.

    We're reaping the "rewards" from underfunding public education and mental health.

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    Hello NiftyNiblick,

    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    So depressingly true, PolyTalker.

    We're reaping the "rewards" from underfunding public education and mental health.
    That's why they only give education lip service, why it is reserved only for the rich and those who want to go into debt like they are.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    I don't understand the Republican strategy here.

    They have put us into an unsustainable situation that makes the rich richer and kicks a really big debt can down the road.

    What is so bad about taxing the rich enough to reduce the deficit? They are making money hand over fist. Even with higher taxes they will still be richer than everybody else. And still getting richer. I don't get it.

    What is it - just pure greed?

    They have no plan. There is no strategy to stabilize the rising debt/GDP ratio.

    That cannot be allowed to rise indefinitely.

    We have a fake 'good economy.' It depends on not collecting enough taxes from the rich. That situation has to be temporary. If it continues like that debt will become too great, and the USA will have it's national credit rating downgraded, and be forced to pay higher interest on the debt - or print money, which would kick off inflation. The only way out is to tax the rich more.

    Tax the rich more.

    Tax the rich more.

    Tax the rich more.

    It's the only way out.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Debt to GDP ratio was 105.45% when this thread was created, is now 105.57%.

    That's going the WRONG WAY.

    If the economy is 'doing great' under Trump, the rise of the federal debt is 'doing greater' under Trump.

    The debt is now $22.387 TRILLION.

    The deficit has topped one TRILLION dollars, now $1.008 TRILLION.

    The TRADE DEFICIT is now $879.181 billion. When will the trade deficit hit a TRILLION?
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    The rich are building a new country based on Plutocracy. People like the Kochs have long term plans to change America in fundamental ways. If people had any idea of the wealth gap, they might be alarmed. What has happened and is happening in America is ugly. The rightyu are helping this happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Our economy is propped up by constantly rising debt which cannot be maintained.

    We are not taxing the rich enough to carry the rest or balance the budget. Not even close.

    A Trillion dollar deficit for 329 million people can be reduced to simple math.

    $1,000,000,000,000 / 329,000,000 = $3039.51 per person.

    Obviously, every earner in the USA cannot come up with 3K for every person in their household.

    That's how much taxes would have to be raised to balance the current budget.

    It is not sustainable.

    Debt vs GDP is growing.

    That means our economy is based on constantly increasing the amount of debt compared to the size of our economy.

    Gross debt / GDP ratio is now 105.45%.

    US Debt Clock

    Keep an eye on that. What happens if we allow that to continue growing?

    Can we sustain a debt of 200% of our GDP? 400%? 1000% ???

    Where do you draw the line?

    Obviously we cannot allow this ratio, Debt/GDP, to constantly rise.

    We lean on debt when we need to - to get us through bad times.

    Using it to artificially pump up the economy during good times is irresponsible.

    The Trump tax cut was irresponsible.

    The longer it takes before we admit that, the deeper the hole we dig.

    We cannot have an economy which depends on that level of rising debt. It's not just the amount of debt. It is the rate at which it is rising that is alarming.

    PoliTalker anti-troll thread thief disclaimer: If this thread is stolen, plagiarized, will the thief have the nerve to use the entire OP, word for word? Including this disclaimer? If you want my take on it, you'll have to post to this original PoliTalker thread. I refuse to be an enabler for online bullies, so I won't post to a stolen thread. I won't even read it. If you don't see me, PoliTalker, posting in this thread check the author. This might be a hijacked thread, not the original.

    And the exploding Student Loan debt is also going in the wrong direction. That punishes success. We need to reward doing well in school, not saddle them with crushing debt. That hurts the economy. Then when they get a job they can't afford to buy anything. They are too busy paying off their loans.
    What makes you think increasing taxes would result in anything other than increased spending?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Debt to GDP ratio was 105.45% when this thread was created, is now 105.57%.

    That's going the WRONG WAY.

    If the economy is 'doing great' under Trump, the rise of the federal debt is 'doing greater' under Trump.

    The debt is now $22.387 TRILLION.

    The deficit has topped one TRILLION dollars, now $1.008 TRILLION.

    The TRADE DEFICIT is now $879.181 billion. When will the trade deficit hit a TRILLION?
    The real shame there is that good economic times offer a chance to actually reduce the debt, but his Administration looked for the quick political gain and added more currency to an already prospering economy to attain a sugar high. Generations in the future will be paying for it

    And if anything, it all exposes the right's supposed principle of conservative economics and what we are seeing now their bogus concern for deficits and debt. Throwing in family values, open trade, diminished Executive power, and the traditional GOP of the last eight decades has vanished, going to be tough selling oneself as a conservative post Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    What makes you think increasing taxes would result in anything other than increased spending?
    Increasing taxes is how we brought down the debt every time.

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    Hello Dirt McGirt,

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt McGirt View Post
    What makes you think increasing taxes would result in anything other than increased spending?
    I don't buy into the hopeless mindset. We, the responsible, must prevail or our nation is toast.

    We have already shown that we can eliminate the deficit and create a surplus. President Clinton did it already. What is required is a dedication to principle, and a responsible president to keep spendthrifts in Congress in check.

    Republicans railed about the rising debt under Obama, but showed their true colors as soon as they got their hands on the national credit card under Trump. They must be replaced with responsible leadership. Trump is not it. He has demonstrated no fear of bankruptcy. He was a bad choice for president, and must be replaced.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello archives,

    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    The real shame there is that good economic times offer a chance to actually reduce the debt, but his Administration looked for the quick political gain and added more currency to an already prospering economy to attain a sugar high. Generations in the future will be paying for it
    "The real shame there is that good economic times offer a chance to actually reduce the debt, but his Administration looked for the quick political gain and added more currency to an already prospering economy to attain a sugar high. Generations in the future will be paying for it"

    ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON CORRECT!!!

    Trump said he would eliminated the debt but he lied. Instead, he has pretended there is no such thing; and acted like the national credit card balance never needs to be paid down. He has kicked that can down the road.

    The economy was already doing well under Obama. It was steadily growing in a responsible way, with a low deficit.

    A good economy is when you can attack the federal debt. That is the responsible thing to do. It cannot be done during a bad economy. A bad economy always runs the debt up because that's when you have to pay unemployment benefits on reduced revenue.

    Trump is being completely irresponsible with the debt. If you are turning a blind eye to the debt now, you will have your head snapped back during the next recession. Can you even picture $30 Trillion in debt? The USA will be in serious financial trouble then, and it will all have been CAUSED BY TRUMP. Mark my words. Low taxes for the rich is like fools gold. We need to be paying more into the system and reducing the deficit NOW, while we can.

    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    And if anything, it all exposes the right's supposed principle of conservative economics and what we are seeing now their bogus concern for deficits and debt. Throwing in family values, open trade, diminished Executive power, and the traditional GOP of the last eight decades has vanished, going to be tough selling oneself as a conservative post Trump
    Trump is totally irresponsible with the federal debt. 'Sugar High.' That's the best description of how he is handling it. Such a shame to see so much foolishness so widespread.

    You would think we would have learned our lesson after the Great Recession.

    Trump appears determined to create a greater one.

    We could be on the verge of the Trump Depression.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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