The free markets at work...

[Althea]

In my message boarding career, I have seen a lot of conservatives demand the we get rid of the Great Society, that we get rid of the New Deal, and we restrict the federal government to a conservative view of the "enumerated clauses" of the constitution.

The question left unaddressed is the type of capitalism that these conservatives would have us revert to by eliminating the reforms of the last 80 years --- The type of capitalism that existed before the New Deal, was generally inhumane, cruel, and benefited only a small proportion of the population.

The Nordic Model, the western European social welfare state, and the American New Deal/Great Society model of a socio-economic system - aka, a hybrid economy - is unequivocally the most egalitarian and successful economic system in human history.

The dupes who want to abolish the "hated" New Deal actually have a lot of explaining to do.

Libertarians are always ready to take the reins, now that the entire infrastructure has been paid for by the taxpayers. I can't think of any meaningful infrastructure project that was completed by the private sector. No profit...no interest.

[Althea]

No, I mean you should really try and convince people that child labor could actually come back. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

Last Friday, during an event at Harvard, Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich offered up a modest plan for alleviating poverty in the United States. It was time, he said, to relax our "truly stupid" child labor laws. In particular, schools should fire their unionized janitors, and hire children as young as nine to do the work instead. Per The New York Times:

"You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 14, 16 years of age, fine," Mr. Gingrich said. "You're totally poor. You're in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I've tried for years to have a very simple model. Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they'd begin the process of rising."

[Cypress]

No, I mean you should really try and convince people that child labor could actually come back. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

It sounds like you are basically thanking liberals and unions for fighting against and abolishing child labor.

Trump administration wants to roll back child labor laws

The Trump administration wants to roll back decades-old protections for America’s youngest workers by allowing teens to toil for longer hours under some of the nation’s most hazardous workplace conditions, a new report said Tuesday.

The Department of Labor will propose relaxing current rules—known as Hazardous Occupations Orders — that bar 16- and 17-year-old apprentices and student learners from receiving extended, supervised training in certain dangerous jobs, sources told Bloomberg Law.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/08/trump-...ld-labor-laws/

[Cypress]

A GOP lawmaker wants to repeal child labor laws in his state. He employs hundreds of minors.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.197f3318580c

The War On Child Labor Laws: Maine Republicans Want Longer Hours, Lower Pay For Kids
https://thinkprogress.org/the-war-on...-9b270556f387/

[Nordberg]

Even capitalism's most ardent supporters wouldn't argue it's a perfect system because it's not. But of all the economic systems created none have accomplished what capitalism has and none has done more for human advancement and brought more people out of poverty than capitalism. Yet we need a plaque to honor all people killed by capitalism? That's asinine.

Capitalism has never existed. Neither has free trade. There are no socialistic countries either. Every single one is a mix of capitalism and socialism. The US had its first tariff before 1800 and has over 12,000 now. Labeling is a device used to fool the voters.

[Wilhelm Zenz]

the market does work but okay there are many market models norway and singapore come to mind Singapore, where the government owns most of the land and housing and a stake in most business is the American right's "capitalist ideal" Singapore, where the government owns most of the land and housing and a stake in most business is the American right's "capitalist ideal" https://boingboing.net/2018/03/11/capitalist-ideal.html

[Cypress]

Libertarians are always ready to take the reins, now that the entire infrastructure has been paid for by the taxpayers. I can't think of any meaningful infrastructure project that was completed by the private sector. No profit...no interest.

Selling off public infrastructure to private companies, and toll roads really bug me. Private companies profiting off public infrastructure that belongs to, and was built by taxpayers.

Private enterprise is great at creating consumer products: electronics, cars, appliances, phones, gadgets.

But public infrastructure, education, science and research, and health care are core societal needs that cannot be left to the vagaries of the profit motive.

I would go one step further than that: our nation's natural resources - oil, gas, minerals, water - should be a public resource held as a public trust, and used first and foremost for the benefit of the social welfare, and secondarily as a source for extracting profits. That is what the Norwegians do, and they do it quite well.

On another tangent, I am the first to express indignation at the gulag archipelago and the crimes against humanity perpetrated by Stalin, and Mao. But it needs to be acknowledged by everyone - including teabaggers - that throughout history, capitalism has caused more than its fair share of human misery and death.

Condemn communists’ cruelties, but capitalism has its own terrible record

Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism. Much of the wealth of London, Bristol and Liverpool – once the largest slave trading port in Europe – was made from the enslaved labour of Africans. The capital accumulated from slavery – from tobacco, cotton and sugar – drove the industrial revolution in Manchester and Lancashire; and several banks today can trace their origins to profits made from slavery.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...economic-model

[Althea]

Selling off public infrastructure to private companies, and toll roads really bug me. Private companies profiting off public infrastructure that belongs to, and was built by taxpayers.

Private enterprise is great at creating consumer products: electronics, cars, appliances, phones, gadgets.

Those few roads that are privately owned are all suffering at the hands of profiteering. They don't make money, and they're now in disrepair.

But public infrastructure, education, science and research, and health care are core societal needs that cannot be left to the vagaries of the profit motive.

That's where a Libertarian typically has to bow out of the debate. I have a client who has Fox News blasting all day long. He's in his seventies. Although I don't discuss politics with him for any reason, he did mention the other day that he leans Libertarian. I mentioned the issues you and I just posted, and he actually admitted that he can't argue against that point.

Small victory.

I would go one step further than that: our nation's natural resources - oil, gas, minerals, water - should be a public resource held as a public trust, and used first and foremost for the benefit of the social welfare, and secondarily as a source for extracting profits. That is what the Norwegians do, and they do it quite well.

I've been saying that for more than a decade. Unfortunately, the wealthy have a stranglehold on our govt., and it will never happen.

On another tangent, I am the first to express indignation at the gulag archipelago and the crimes against humanity perpetrated by Stalin, and Mao. But it needs to be acknowledged by everyone - including teabaggers - that throughout history, capitalism has caused more than its fair share of human misery and death.

It proves that a blend of multiple forms of govt/economies typically produces the best result.

[cawacko]

Althea, so because you have a client who's in his 70's and watches Fox News (as if Fox News has anything to do with Libertarian economic theory) and this guy can't answer a few questions that means there is no Libertarian beliefs on those issues?

I guess that's one way to avoid actually researching a subject, just say "well this dude told me..." You are free to disagree with Libertarian beliefs on those topics but its pretty willfully ignorant to claim you don't know what they are seeing how easy it is to find them.

[Cypress]

Those few roads that are privately owned are all suffering at the hands of profiteering. They don't make money, and they're now in disrepair.

That's where a Libertarian typically has to bow out of the debate. I have a client who has Fox News blasting all day long. He's in his seventies. Although I don't discuss politics with him for any reason, he did mention the other day that he leans Libertarian. I mentioned the issues you and I just posted, and he actually admitted that he can't argue against that point.

Small victory.

I've been saying that for more than a decade. Unfortunately, the wealthy have a stranglehold on our govt., and it will never happen.

It proves that a blend of multiple forms of govt/economies typically produces the best result.

The western liberal welfare state is the most successful socio-economic model in human history. People like FDR recognized that capitalism, left to its own devices, causes an intolerable amount of human misery. Necessitating the need to put an iron grip of restraint and regulation on the free markets, and recognizing that the core needs of a nation cannot be trusted to the profit motive.

I think the argument can be made that the most admired, successful, and egalitarian socio-economic model in human history, are the liberal social welfare states of the Nordic countries.

Centuries ago, the first so called classical liberal economists assumed that pure human reason and self-interest could prevail to serve society's needs, and that government should get out of the way of the markets and the economy. Time has not been kind to these libertarian wet dreams, and there is no country on the planet that serves as a successful economic model of the kind American conservatives advocate for - aka, dismantling the New Deal, the Great Society, wholesale deregulation and privatization, and unleashing the magic of the free markets. It was always horseshit, and we knew it was horseshit over a century ago.

[evince]

No, I mean you should really try and convince people that child labor could actually come back. That's fucking HILARIOUS.

if there are NO LAWS against it why would it not?

[evince]

Althea, so because you have a client who's in his 70's and watches Fox News (as if Fox News has anything to do with Libertarian economic theory) and this guy can't answer a few questions that means there is no Libertarian beliefs on those issues?

I guess that's one way to avoid actually researching a subject, just say "well this dude told me..." You are free to disagree with Libertarian beliefs on those topics but its pretty willfully ignorant to claim you don't know what they are seeing how easy it is to find them.

You have NEVER answered them either you lying shit brick

[Mason Melchizedek]

53257567_2296292917307821_7345822466318532608_n.jpg
Time for Democratic Socialism,end tyranny of the 1% on the masses

[countryboy]

if there are NO LAWS against it why would it not?

What does this have to do with Russo bot holes? Are you even allowed to post outside of that subject?

[evince]

What does this have to do with Russo bot holes? Are you even allowed to post outside of that subject?

why do you pretend Capitalism can be unleashed and not create evils like child labor?


ITS HISTORICAL FACT